showboat

Seconded. Please councillors keep your political points in PM or in chambers. If you have pertinent information about the subject at hand then great. Otherwise it annoys the electorate...

Worker Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > So we're only concerned about those independent > shops who sell 'posh' food Well, first of all define posh! If by that you mean places selling higher grade stuff at an understandbly higher price then yes. But that's supply and demand around here. So I suppose yes, they are the ones selling what you call posh food. But as I said, I've come to the conclusion that M+S have as much right to be there as SMBS and Moxons. We choose where to spend our money, and if a place we like goes out of business that's a market economy at work. It's up to us to support them if we want them to stay, rather than shouting that the big chains shouldn't come here at all. Lordship Lane many moons ago was a much more, shall we say down at heel place. This is the price of progress, the big kids want to be here now. Not much we can do other than vote with our wallets.

Ha! Fourth page before 6pm. StraferJack called it... I'm not convinced by the argument that people will use the rest of LL more if there's an M+S. On the contrary I think it'll take business away from independent places. But then that's competition for you. Ultimately M+S has a right to open up there if it can reach an agreement. I won't use it because I think its too expensive for what it is, but others will and that's capitalism. I doubt anyone is going out of business over this, but it will put a squeeze on the small folk.

This thread should make for good viewing :-)!

This isn't the time or place for Barber bashing, as much as some may enjoy it. Please take it to his own thread. I think he must mis-spoke. It happens, and he's apologised. Move on. I'm tremendously pleased the school has done so well. I have a close relative working there and they told me how hard the head has been working to ensure they didn't go into special measures, and how seriously he takes his job. It's good to know there are still people of his calibre out there. I hope Goodrich will continue like this for as long as possible.

If they aren't compliant and have been shut down then doesn't that show the council is actually doing its job and monitoring these traders? Sounds to me like the system is working.

Ah, HAACP - how much do you hate doing that stuff? Mind numbingly dull doesn't even begin to describe it... Useful though, keeps the EHO's well happy when it's done right! Fox - I really don't understand why you'll eat street food in other places but think ED is bad. Doesn't make any sense. If you don't like it, fair enough. But other than that your arguments don't hold water.

Notwithstanding that you're well travelled - at least inside what seems to be mostly western Europe - you've still failed to understand the points people have made. Did you eat at street markets in any of those places?

Ok Fox - to paraphase the great Bunk Moreland, "you're arguments f*&?ed and here's why"... 'I have never suggested that any trader is neglegent.' Actually, you said the Hog Roast was 'swarming with flies' and that there was 'no evidence' that cakes were made in hygenic surroundings. You described 'Unrefridgerated Cheese and deli food festering for hours on a hot summers day' and 'Baguettes with the salad at air temp'. That's all bad, but the Hog Roast comment in particular is an accusation of negligence, as is questioning how the cakes are made, because you KNOW that's what you were trying to insinuate, and no amount of back peddling on your part can change that. 'It is also Not my responsiblity to report any missgivings.' Food poisoning and illness is extremely serious - it kills. It is a crime. The penalty starts at a ?20,000 fine per person per incident and goes all theway up to jail time. If you know or suspect it is taking place then why wouldn't you report it? I would. You don't get to throw around dire warnings of what nmay happen to kiddies while at the same time saying you won't help. As I keep saying, if you have EVIDENCE, tell someone. The Local Authorities will act. Tell me, why wouldn't you report a crime? 'I mearly expressed my concerns about the way some food stuffs were displayed.' No you didn't. You have come very close to slander in accusing traders of criminal behaviour and the council of looking the other way. Your comments are serious and should be taken seriously. Eg, 'it gets the blessing of Southwark Council. Well it would. They collect the rent..'. Your saying the council is in collusion with criminal action. Back it up or recant it. 'I do not think that I will influence anyone here nor do I want to. It was meant as casual observation.. an opinion.' Of course you want to influence people. You want them closed down or moved on, and for folk not to use them. You're messing with peoples earnings on the basis of your own narrow minded and ignorant opinions, and not listening when others point out facts. That isn't casual or just an opinion. It's (as I keep reminding you) an accusation of lawbreaking. I'm not getting hysterical - but this is my industry, and I don't like it when small minded folk who know nothing about the stringent laws we (quite rightly) operate under spout off thinking they have understanding of microbiology and cross contamination. For the record, the kitchen I run has the highest possible rating for cleanliness and safety that EHO's can give, and I'm CIEH Food Safety Level 3 (Merit) qualified. So I do know what I'm talking about. As both StraferJack and Quids and others point out, there are major holes in your argument, given that there isn't a worldwide pandemic of people getting sick after eating from market stalls. I might gently suggest you widen your horizons a little.

Hi James, Over on another thread there are suggestions that the food stalls on the North Cross Road market may not be up to EHO standard, and that Southwark Council may look the other way because the stall holders are posh ED folk and not Indian restaurants. Where might someone gain information on EHO attendance on these traders, as well as figures regarding any allegations of food poisoning or illness made against the traders, and any other relevant data?

I repeat - again, because you ignored it the first time - if you have evidence that traders, food handlers or anyone else being negligent then you MUST report it. If you have evidence that Southwark Council are giving them an easy ride in exchange for rents then you must contact the police. Anything else is unsupported, baseless and malicious accusations made because you don't have the full facts. And at the risk of sounding like John Selwyn Gummer, my two year old has eaten little bits of food from three different stands up there, and is in excellent health. Do you want to report me to Social Services? Because if what you allege is true I'm being negligent. Tell me, how do you know I've put her at risk?

DulwichFox Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > Unrefridgerated Cheese and deli food festering > for hours on a hot summers day. Current legislation (if I remember correctly) allows for food to be unrefridgerated for up to 4 hours, after which it must be discarded. I agree that if they're in breach they should be prosecuted. If you gave evidence to that effect then you must contact the authorities. > Homemade Cakes Fudge and the like with no > evidence they were made in hygenic surroundings. Evidence should be on file with the local EHO's. Again , legal requirement. They should be able to out your mind at ease. > > All the Indian restuarants constantly subjected > to the scrutiny of Hygiene inspectors with their > little probes fining owners to ?1,000's if there > food is 1/2 Deg C above limit. No one gets fined like that unless there are repeated violations. Here you demonstrate that you know nothing of practical EHO work. > > Not so for the posh little stall holders from > D.V. Again, have any if you actually asked Southwark about this? Or is it all supposition? > > Hog Roast swarming with flies. I repeat, if you have evidence report it. Otherwise that was slander. > > Baguettes with the salad at air temp. Warm rice > and salad Biggest cause of food poisoning. Rice is dangerous. Salad itself is not. Incorrect washing of it and cross contamination are what INTRODUCE bacteria to the salad. Again, do you have evidence of bad food handling or incorrect temperature control? > > And it gets the blessing of Southwark Council. > Well it would. They collect the rent.. Again, this is legally dodgy. Are you accusing the council of knowingly ignoring good safety standards in order to collect rent? > > The smell is enough to stop me going anywhere > near it. Each to their own. >

Anyone telling you, that should be. Damn phone...

Razors Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It seems to me that any tom, dick or harry can > open a food stall without prior permission or > knowledge of these so called elf and safety > people-thats researched! Researched? Where? Wikipedia maybe? You can't open up without prior permission, it's illegal. Antibes telling you different is lying or a fool. And if you read all posts > you would see that someone was advertising their > friends stall on here for free-it should be paid > for! Why that bothers you so much I have no idea. Btw has anyone ever seen elf inspectors at > these stalls? No! I wonder why. Are you there 24/7? Do you work for Southwark EHO? I'd guess not. Why don't you call the council before making accusations? What you're doing us insinuating that traders are acting illegally, and that goes beyond the trolling. Back up your facts or shut up. And what does 'I wonder why' mean? Are you accusing the council of something?

And Razors demonstrates again that some people have no idea how modern food production legislation, Health and Safety laws and EHO compliance actually works. Do you really think it's possible to serve 'mystery meat' from a roadside stall, or be unable to demonstrate that you wash your hands? Do you have any idea how tight the law and the council EHO officers are these days? It's not like the 80's, when you could still smoke while cooking, for example. Which is a good thing of course. And why do you assume that a stall is likely to be unhygienic but, say, a restaurant won't be? In fact, why that stall and not any others down there, why single them out? Talk about bigoted... Maybe ask the people on the stall instead of spouting your mouth off about things you plainly have no understanding about. But I suppose it's easier to snipe at them over the net. And no, I don't know them - just have no time for such ignorance when people are just trying to make a living and bring a little colour to the area.

I think the point made wasn't about revenue generation. As such - more a query over who or what will pay for the extension? Would it be increased fares or other funding?

I'm sorry henryb, maybe I'm being thick here, but what do road costs have to do with it? The point is that to extend the service will require an increase in running costs. Where would these come from? It's a fair question.

I already said that I accept it, but FHR doesn't experience the same kind of congestion - its a wider road with more scope for overtaking if needed, more side roads that people can turn off onto and the space to actually turn round if required. None of these exist over st Honor Oak once you're up the hill. My concern is that if it backs up there it will impact the route further on - precisely why it was originally split into the 363, as coming from Crystal PalCe there were issues that then affected the rest of the route. I don't pretend to have an answer here, hit somehow feel a solution using a more local route would be better.

Gavin - how can you not understand the potential problems with congestion? You say you don't accept them, but have you personally taken a look at that road during peak times? It can take fifteen minutes sometimes to drive from the station to the top of the hill, and vice versa, such is the weight of traffic. Adding another bus into this has to be thought about carefully. I accept the desire for some kind of link, but surely it runs the risk of a knock on effect to the rest of the 63 route? There must be a better way.

There's a big difference between a level of noise and having to deal with drunk fools leaving vomit and bodily fluids in your garden.

The point, Huguenot, is that no one is complaining about the other shops. Just the fast food joint. People complained about the trailer and it was moved eventually. Fair enough, job done. But then they find something else to complain about. That does look like snobbery.

Well said.

And I agree Bunty - they are scum. Really sorry to hear that.

Buddug - it's not about believing him or not. The point being made is that you have a personal vendetta against the man and will spin anything he says to serve that end. Absolutely we must hold politicians to account, whether a PM or a local councillor. But we have to do so in a reasonable manner. Just because people are saying you go too far doesn't mean we're sheep who automatically agree with him. That's insulting to us. But there's a point at which someone can cross the line from being an active participant in democracy to crazy stalker type that just wants to attack. I repeat - shouldn't we be encouraging politicians who consistently engage with the public like James does? Isn't that the best way to be able to challenge them?

You are.