RuthE

Lovely...

Maurice Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Chav indeed we always disagree. > > You speak of fighting for the estate. I'm all for > providing secure and decent housing for those who > need a leg up until they get back on their feet. > I do not think they should be places that inspire > children to stay for generations though. Safe, > secure, services to help get people back on their > feet...all fine. But not places that inspire > children to move upstairs for yet another > generation. I'm not going to bother getting into the argument of whether council tenants "deserve" less consideration than others (though I agree with you on one point, which is that the expectation and, possibly, need of council housing should not be passed on from generation to generation). However, on another point, most council estates now contain a significant number of privately owner-occupied or privately tenanted homes. By your argument, all the crud from town planning decisions should consistently be pushed into the same areas, making them increasingly unpleasant places to live. Surely the net result would be the perpetuation and worsening of sink estates.

Maurice Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Why do people believe if they are born and raised > in a community they have a right to be able to > afford to buy a property there? It is understandable that a certain proportion of people born and raised in a particular community will want to remain there in their adult life and raise their own families there. Thus the integrity of the community is maintained, with a healthy balance of people who have always "belonged" in the area and feel they have a stake in its future, rather than the only non-incomers who can afford to live in an area being those of the older generation who have tiny mortgages which shrank into insignificance due to high wage inflation in times past. The fact that UK tenancy laws don't give any long-term security of tenure leads to people viewing buying as the be-all and end-all for anybody seeking housing stability. Anybody who is neither old enough to have had a secure council tenancy when it was a working-class norm rather than the preserve of the very poor and/or destitute, nor unfortunate enough to have experienced hardship in the recent past leading to to the allocation of one of the few remaining council properties, has two choices - buy, or rent privately with no protection of either tenure or rent level. I don't agree that anybody should see property ownership in their home town as a right, but I do think that for the most part it's important that people should have the chance of a secure home for the long term future. (Obviously, borrowing ridiculous salary multiples on an interest-only mortgage is likely to be counter-productive!)

Downsouth - I did wonder whether somebody might! I have to say, though, I wondered whether Southwark might come into the bottom 20, but I'm glad it didn't. It's got some great areas, ED included, and even the dodgy areas have relatively good amenities within walking distance and are easy to get into Central London from. Some of the London boroughs which made it into the bottom 20 are much worse - Barking and Dagenham wasn't even that high up the list, and it's a godforsaken wasteland. I know I live in a pretty dodgy bit of Southwark, but I did choose to move there (I can't afford ED unless I reverted to house-sharing). I've had my eye on Peckham and Camberwell for some years as somewhere cheap, convenient and lively. On the other hand, there were many places in the bottom 20 which I really wouldn't touch with a barge pole. There are so many places with all the disadvantages of Peckham and Camberwell and none of the benefits*. *(no benefits jokes please!)

Well, if I lived in "The Grove" I might be tempted to claim ED residency as well, but I'm somewhat further away to the North. I do actually like living in Camberwell despite its many shortcomings. I work in SE1, and as I said earlier today on the SE1 forum, I was depressed by the inability of the Best & Worst website to come up with an adjective for Peckham and Camberwell! As in "five very distinct London villages: urban and creative Bermondsey, historic Rotherhithe, relaxed and green Dulwich, cultural and contemporary Bankside & Borough and Peckham & Camberwell."

Ah, well I'm actually in Camberwell (I frequent the SE5 forum and have so far only lurked on the EDF). But good to get to know the neighbours ;)

No.... they were 2nd. Best was Edinburgh. Worst was Middlesborough. (this is my first post on here by the way)