Spangles30

You sound fab Chavvy, and have argued your case well. I personally think that there should be a mix of council tenants, so that estates aren't full of ne'er do wells. I used to live on such an estate near Loughborough Junction, so I have experienced life in posh and salubrious parts of town, and rather less salubrious parts. I very much valued the time I spent on the council estate as it gave me an insight as to how horrible life can be, esp. for kids on estates like the one I was on. There are some really nasty ar@ses on this forum, who need to respect other people's viewpoints. I have not been nasty once on here, just possibly expressed opinions which not everyone holds. Well, tough.

well said planlondon. Couldn't agree more.

Ganapati, nice one. But I do not believe that a caesarean section (not that I have had one) could be the cause of any of these illness, nor is it mucking about with hormones and the like. http://www.i-sis.org.uk/wwwART.php

Bob, I don't agree with it at any age. Of course it is an option largely more open to wealthier women because you only get one try on the NHS - and even then it is a lottery depending on where you live. Since you are so keen to grill me on my opinion, I object to IVF primarily because in IVF the child-to-be is treated as a product of manufacture?as an operational objective to be achieved by the application of technical means. No child should be manufactured, even if his parents want the product. Having a child is a privilege not a right. The answer to infertility is not to transform procreation into manufacture. The answer is certainly not to treat children as objects, however highly desired or prized, and however much we are willing to love them once they have been produced. Research also suggests IVF children are twice as likely to suffer ill health than children conceived naturally. A study of hundreds of seven-year-olds has revealed that they are admitted to hospital much more frequently than other youngsters of the same age. While many of their illnesses were common to all children, those born through fertility treatment suffered more fits and more conditions connected to the brain and immune system. The British study also showed that IVF twins tend to require more hospital treatment than youngsters from single births. The figures, published in Human Reproduction, a respected medical journal, will fuel fears over fertility treatments. Previous studies have shown that young men conceived this way are more likely to be infertile. IVF babies are also more likely to suffer from birth defects, including heart problems, and are thought to be at higher risk of autism and cerebral palsy. Of course, people who have had IVF are going to have a completely different opinion. As Mandy Rice -Davies said "They(sic) would, wouldn't they?"

Ganapati, having a child is a privilege not a right. We cannot always have everything we want in this world, and that includes having a child. Not everyone CAN have children, and perhaps they need to accept that. Apart from the fact that IVF doesn't even boost your chances that much, research suggests that IVF children could be a timebomb waiting to happen i.e. illnesses they may have in the future due to how they were conceived. It doesn't surprise me.

Bob, why do you ask? I don't have to agree with IVF, do I? Personally, I think it should just be for women who have undergone illnesses like cancer making it hard for them to conceive naturally. I do not agree that it should be for women in their 40s, 50s and 60s just because they are 'desperate for a baby'. Lambast me as much as you like, I don't care. This is what I think. I am also a Catholic and IVF is against my religion. In fact it is viewed as heinously as abortion. I apologise if we are going off topic somewhat but you DID ask. Sorry if I did not give you the answer you were looking for.

Mattham, since you ask, I don't agree with IVF to conceive due to older age - but that is my opinion and I am entitled to it. I mention it '3 times' in response to Sean's points.

Well said Chavvy, my sentiments>:D< exactly!!

LOL Maurice!!! :)

Mattam, I suggest you ask Janice Turner.

Sean, Janice Turner is suggesting that "richer older, and possibly IVF requiring women' are moving into the area, and how do you know that she hasn't seen 9 sets of twins in 30 minutes? More to the point, how do you know that I haven't seen it? I didn't know there were drinks on Friday, but I tend to go out in other parts of London these days, rather than ED. I don't like places like Liquorish and Black Cherry. Enjoy yourself! ;)

Incidentally, when I had my own child my midwives said that ED has a much higher than average number of new mothers aged 40plus, and a higher than average number of IVF children. And they should know, right?

Bob, you're right I do like living in the area, and it is very alluring living in a poncified area (I used to live Chelsea) and obviously ED has changed over the years. In some ways for the better, in other ways for the worst. I find a lack of 'real' people in the area these days. Sean, I am sorry but I agree with what Janice Turner said about the higher number of much older mothers in ED. I see it every day with my own eyes. There does seem to be an adundance of twins (possibly IVF ones) as she claims. What is your problem with that???? Many of the mothers I see with babies look at least late 30s or over 40. That is what Turner meant. She is right - or else the women look rather old and rather wrinkled for their age.

I know there is already a thread devoted to this, but I wanted to address a couple of the key point that are noted in the Times article by Janice Turner (6/10/07). Do East Dulwich Forumites agree that the following is true about the area? 1) A greasy take-out joint has turned into an edgy, postmodern fish?n?chip brasserie, with stark benches and organic mushy peas. 2) Sequined scatter cushions and tea-light holders are available in at least three bijoux new boutiques. 3) A posh butcher and deli opened, replacing the cheapo ones bankrupted 12 years ago by Somerfield. 4) THIS ONE'S DEFINITELY TRUE: There are nine sets of twins in the course of a 30-minute stroll, due to the arrival of richer, older, IVF-requiring mummies. 5) The Saturday street market sells five quid organic olive bread, 6) the ?ironic? old-fashioned sweet shop has penny chews costing 23p . . . . 7) Bang goes the neighbourhood. All the useful shops, the hardware store, the glazier, will go. Chains will suck money from local firms to head offices. The shops will get poncier, the staff will get Notting Hill attitude, like the waitresses in the prissy new tea salon. All I can suggest is that everyone troop into Foxtons every day for coffee. Let?s put them and Caff? Nero out of business in one double shot.

Haart isn't coming out of this thread particularly well is it? Perhaps if the agency gets wind of this thread they'll improve their alleged dire service?:)

Turner describes the area as being 'poncey' (and potentially getting even poncier), and the bad attitudes of the waitresses in the 'prissy new tea salon'. People like me i.e. doctors, teachers etc. will be moving out due to the high cost, and you will get city bankers and monied lawyers moving in. It has already happened. The ED area is aesthetically very nice, but I am not really the type to live in yummified, 'poncey' areas buying bread, albeit 'organic and made with olive oil costing ?5 from the streetmarket' (Turner's words!). Perhaps this 'poncification' will happen to Forest Hill, Nunhead and Sydenham. **Shudder**

She definitely lives in East Dulwich. She has mentioned it in her columns. Also she has mentioned the stolen LCD TVs in her local council gym - which is exactly what has just happened at the Fusion on Goose Green!!!!!

Thanks for the link. Janice Turner pretty much sums up why I am moving to Forest Hill.

Thanks! Brockwell Lido IS included in our Fusion membership, andy. At least I am 99% certain it is. http://www.fusion-lifestyle.com/ I may be wrong. Anyway, there are obviously loads of people on this forum who are quite happy to pay for this new gym, and it is nice they can afford it. I am leaving the area anyway to go live somewhere more affordable, albeit less 'trendy'. How downmarket of me. :(

I don't have an offer yet alan. The person I am buying off is downsizing! I am happy to accept a Claphamite if they pay the asking price! :)

Thank you downsouth. I have just had my offer accepted! Oh my God!

Thank you alan dale and downsouth. I agree that CP is nice, however it is a bit too far for me. I also agree with downsouth that you 'adjust your norms accordingly'. I guess it is natural to get attached to your part of London, and feel terrified at the prospect of moving to another patch (Well, I am like that!). Anyway, I reckon I will sell up and move to Forest Hill/Sydenham.

Downsouth, yes I sold through propertybroker, and can only say how fantastic it is. It cost ?138 for a board and photos, and the company couldn't have been more helpful. Within days I found a buyer, and that was that. I would use them again.

Asset, "How on earth can you make such a ridiculous generalisation?" I can. I have. I did. I stand by what I said.

Jeremy, had to laugh at your point there!! :)