zeban

It doesn't bother me at all!

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Maybe emotionally? Though not all are. My brother is extremely level headed and emotionally mature- although he does have 4 older sisters and lives with his Mum! I think girls often look older than their male counterparts, as their bodies tend to develop earlier than boys which then attracts much unwanted attention from men old enough to be their fathers- I had it myself and it made me feel sick. Not that that makes girls more mature than boys at all, maybe makes girls think they're more mature than boys- perhaps that's what H was really getting at.

I'm sorry but it's absolute bs to say that we females use getting our periods as a way to justify feeling as though we're more mature than boys. I didn't make the link between procreation and periods at all- I was 12 ffs! 12 year olds DO NOT go around thinking ooh I can have a baby now! I didn't feel any more mature than a growth spurt makes you feel more mature! At that age you just know that it's just a part of life that you know will happen to you as a female, albeit a really annoying, painful part of life that you dread every month, or every two-3 weeks in my case!

I second DJKQ

Agree with all and esp the e-dealer! Southwark seem extremely incompetent tbh

What are you on about Huguenot??? it's not ?97 for a repeat learner whose already done a course at the centre, I don't know the exact amount but it will be around 300 quid or more which is ALOT of money for those that don't have it and it applies even if you were a concession before and therefore on low wages or on disability allowance etc therefore those people wouldn't be able to afford any more courses. At the end of the day it's a community adult learning centre in Peckham that is run by Southwark with the intention of offering affordable courses for people who live in the local community, MANY of whom don't earn much money. The courses they run are all SHORT courses (around 20 hours) that don't 'qualify' you for anything, they are therefore intended for you to just enjoy them and learn which is a good thing and IS worthwhile!!! They are not intended to make you the next Michaelangelo (I did an art course there), they don't have particularly state of the art facilities or contacts in 'industries'. If you are serious about going into one of the areas the centre is offering a course in you would only get the basics there as that isn't the intention of the courses. They are merely there for you to learn a new skill and therefore expand your mind. Some may even allow people in difficult circumstances to be able to get some kind of enjoyment from life such as those with disabilities. Maybe you don't think adults who don't earn much should get the chance to do courses they'ld never be able to afford to at private colleges and be able to enjoy themselves and just learn for the sake of learning the same as someone who earns a lot and could very well pay for a private college to do just that. Are we only allowed bread and water and the bus to work? Also, just so you know, there was huge outrage at this change by students and teachers alike and there was a campaign by many many people to get Southwark to back down on this so don't go on like this is some kind of entitlement attitude on my behalf. If you don't know anything about something then don't frigging post H, you may think you know it all but you don't! An email I received from Southwark save adult learning: Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2012 11:58:09 +0100 Subject: your experience of closures and fees at Thomas Calton From: [email protected] The section we are providing on evidence is anecdotal but very important. Below is the section as we have it at the moment. Please write your experience and email it back so it can be included. No opinions are necessary - just the bare facts on your ability to access southwark adult learning since the fee changes. ie eithe rnot being able to afford it, or finding courses closing because of lack of numbers. OUR EVIDENCE We do not have access to the full figures on learner numbers and course closures but we have anecdotal evidence. In January 2012 learner numbers in arts and crafts were down approximately 300%. One art class tutor who normally teaches two classes lost a whole class as only two learners had registered for that course. That tutor?s other class had 4 learners and was told to close at half term, but two other learners joined, so it finished the term. One disabled student has been unable to afford the high-prices and cannot return to her ceramics class. As her mobility is affected by her disability, she has been unable to sustain attendance at a course she registered on at City Lit.

Ah, so you can do one course an academic year as a 'new learner'? I still don't think that's great but good to know thank you.

There's places on the course because repeat learners at the centre now have to pay an absurd amount of money- sometimes double what the course would cost a new learner. This even applies to those who would have got a concessionary rate for their first course there, and therefore would have to pay 3 times the amount a new learner would have to pay to do a second course. This is quite a new rule brought in two years ago which makes it impossible for those who don't have much money to do more than one course at the centre. I did an art course here and would have loved to do more but alas found I couldn't afford to do any more. It's abominable really as the centre was supposed to cater for all of the local community and has meant that courses have had to close because they can't get enough people onto them or you have ones running with lots of places free, many which could be utilised but aren't because many people can't afford them.

LondonMix Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ditto > > Voyageur Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > She sounds like someone who was concerned about > > her child to me - not an aggressive cow. The > kid > > was hardly putting itself at risk sitting in a > > pram.... > > > > Etta 166 had the best advice above - that way > > nobody is unduly worried/frightened. Simple. Yep, also agree

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?20,968674

Completely agree LondonMix. Britain most certainly does still have a class system.

I'm a Guardian reader. I earn just over minimum wage.

RenF Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Susie Orbach is quite interesting on this topic, I > saw her talk a few years ago about body image and > specifically young women. I think her book > 'Bodies' might be worth a read. For my own two > pence I think that mothers in particular have a > huge impact on how a girl sees bodies, and then > their own body. As a woman whose own > mum had an eating disorder I know this hugely > shaped my perception- even though I was not aware > of my mum's issue until I was older. I have a > daughter now myself and although she's only 9 > months old I know that I will have to be careful > how I refer to myself in front of her- even off > hand comments about jeans not fitting as well, or > not "eating that because it's naughty" and so on- > they all get stored away for future reference... > I'm not saying that mothers "cause" these issues > in their daughters - but I think as mothers we > need to be aware and careful. Completely agree with this RenF. If I have a daughter one day I am going to be so so aware and careful and very sensitive on the subject of food and body image. I don't even want to put make up on in front of her either. I think when you know someone around you whose had an ED you're more aware of the way that what even just one person can say, and especially those most influential in your life, can have an effect on you from a really young age. You can talk about the media all you like but I think the thing that most young people who start to extreme diet (not necessarily develop an ED) will tell you is that it was triggered by someone saying something to them, maybe just something that seems completely ok to that person, but to them made them feel like they were being called fat or greedy etc. For example, I winced when the nurse at my doctors practice told me I'd put on weight recently, when I'd only gone to get the pill. Personally, I think that was insensitive when in my records I clearly have a bit of a past with using and abusing food- as many/most if not all women have. Some people really have no idea how the handle such issues sensitively. Imagine if I'd been a teenager with low self esteem? I also agree with midivydale that ballet and gymnastics didn't have a particularly good effect on me and my siblings feelings towards our body. I always felt like my thighs were huge compared to the other girls in their leotards, and I was 9 or 10. However, having said that, watching the olympic gymnasts this year really made me feel like there's been a change in the sport since I was little. All of the women actually looked like women, had womanly bodies and looked really strong and healthy. Back when I was young it was the tiny russians that were revered, you really didn't see gymnasts look like they did this year. Can I also say midivydale what a fantastic teacher you sound! Wish there were more like you.

Literally is definitely a bug bear for me. Like is annnoying too.

Definitely keep an eye on that minder and absolutely talk to the school and her teachers. I don't want to panic you but my older sister has an eating disorder=started around 14-and we were largely in denial when it started. I think my Mum just didn't want to admit that anything was wrong and also it just wasn't really well known back then, even doctors didn't know much and could be quite unhelpful. Eventually a teacher did call my Mum though about his suspicions but just one teacher out of an entire school took notice of this fact. We also thought she was eating dinner but I'd find little bags of food in the bedroom that we shared. It's a very secretive illness and sadly it had already been going on a while before we really realised what was going on. What I would suggest is observe her when she eats meals with you. What is she like at dinner? Does she leave stuff? does she put butter on her toast at breakfast? I know it sounds crazy but it's better to put your mind at rest. Also, find out what the school says and if it's worrying maybe talk to her in a safe environment for her. Maybe go out for a coffee and really make sure she feels like she's being listened to. I'm sure it is just a fad and if I can reassure you, I also started skipping lunch around this age and feeling like I wanted to lose weight. I'd only eat breadsticks and crudites for lunch, with no dip. I can't remember quite what triggered me to do this, perhaps feeling large compared to my diminishing sister, or looking for attention maybe (though not in a self indulgent way). It didn't go any further thank goodness, and I was eating a perfectly normal breakfast and dinner so I don't think I lost even a pound, but don't let it go on any longer without investigating it further. As for the OP, 4 is just completely devastating to be saying things like this. But from your posts it seems she is picking this up from your sister, your partner etc. I think it's extremely important to keep any conversations about diets away from her and for everyone in the family and household to not be giving any negative messages to her about food. Remind her that you love her, and therefore would never feed her anything that's 'bad' for her.

Jane, I am so sorry to hear of your loss. Can I just say how lovely you are that you are so still so thankful at what must me a tough time. I agree that the The King's staff are truly wonderful and I'm actually considering going into nursing just from having watched and been inspired by 24 hours in A&E (filmed at King's).

Ditto Jessie!

And there's the rub-LIFESTYLE. That's all I can see this argument amounts to. That those who may lose the money don't want to have to change their lifestyle. You simply have to be prepared to change your lifestyle and if that means going back to work one day a week because you lose child benefits well, so what! You're doing ok, I'm sure you want to be doing better but hey, you're not destitute. And plenty of people can buy a house on a decent salary, it might just not be in East Dulwich! I don't think that's sad one little teeny tiny bit. There are plenty of cheaper places to live. What is sad is people becoming homeless because rents are getting so out of control in the whole of London and more and more people who actually really need such benefits like housing are being cut. I really don't understand how some people miss the bigger picture so much!! Now if you started a campaign for more affordable childcare then I'd be marching with you! It's appalling how much childcare is in this country and would happily fight for this cause, as well as bringing in rent caps like the rest of Europe.

> > Edited to add: No one ever thinks they are > well-off or can fathom how other people live I?ve > come to realise. One of my old bosses once told > me over dinner that to live ?modestly? in London > (ie small home, 1 basic holiday a year etc) you > need to earn as a minimum 250k a year. Given that > at most only a couple hundred thousand people in > the whole country earn incomes at or above that > figure and London is a city of 7million people I > wonder how the sheer absurdity of that comment > never dawned on him. The problem is that when you > only socialize with people of your own > socio-economic background you can start to lose > perspective on how few of you there really are. That is so unbelievably true, especially the last part.

ClareC Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Does earning 42k a year really put you in the top > 10% earners in the country? Where did this "fact" > come from? > Wow, you really live on another planet don't you! Do you actually realise how little some people earn? I'm not saying a family on 42k in London are rich but by god you are not poor. You may struggle to keep a car and go on family holidays abroad but you do not struggle to feed and clothe your children, or pay your rent- as mortgages, which I'm sure most of you have- are lower than private rents in London, and those earner a low or even average salary could never get a mortgage. I have no sympathy for people who just don't realise what's it's like to live with so little.

Michael Palaeologus Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Gardens surgery is great. Recommended. > > Beware Dr Tran's slightly odd sense of humour. Haha! this is soooo true! Can't say I recommend the Gardens much. They're ok but there's no stand out doctor and sometimes they say odd/(not meaning to be) unsympathetic things.

You're seriously arguing about something that effects the top 10% of earners!!!! I'm with DaveR all the way. Perhaps you could argue and build a case against some of the changes that will and are making the poor even poorer, many more people homesless, etc because there are a lot of them. Oh no sorry silly me you only care about yourselves! It's absolutely absurd and should never ever have happened in the first place. It's the only cut I agree with! It's funny how those who are wealthy seem to have the biggest sense of entitlement!

mynamehere, maybe London is 'home'. And if her son is in secondary school she probably won't want to uproot him out of it especially through a time of change like this. And there's no such thing as a social housing 'ladder', you don't move up in social housing. You can put your name down on the council wait list-you have to have connections with the borough you're putting your name down at- but unless you're a priority you'll likely wait 20 plus years (in London). I'm not saying it's not worth getting some advice about it, it's not a quick solution because even if you tell the council you are homeless the option will be a hostel until/if something comes up. Renting privately and getting housing benefit however, is not at all impossible and filmaker may be able to claim some benefits that will help see her through, however.. filmaker, whilst it must be unbearable to be living there, I wouldn't suggest being hasty about moving out permanently as you've both built the house together and it should be split fairly in your break up. Perhaps go and stay at a family members or friends house for now, with your son if that's possible?- you need support so confide in someone. I'm sure you'll feel a great sense of relief when you can be honest, even if it's just with one person. Tell or even write to your husband how you feel and the idea about relate and if he's happy to go along with it then it sounds like a really good plan to get some professional help in helping you both to split in the best way possible. Also, speak to relate asap and see what they suggest themselves. I'm sure they have a help line or could find you another professional body for you to talk to if their services have a wait list. Worry about where you will live permanently after you've got everything in the open and have started the proceedings to end things properly between you. It may even make the atmosphere better in the house if you can both admit that you want to move on.

Extrememely well put espelli and I agree with all you have said. It's awful that this has turned into working mothers vs non working mothers, especially as this isn't even a choice for some so count yourself lucky if it is! espolea, that may be so but sometimes you have to just be flexible, if they've realised they must prioritise then they must prioritise and you will find plenty of other activities on offer. I do not agree with the hysteria about it one little bit. No one is attacking you, your circumstances, or your choices. You are simply not who the children's centre is supposed to be targeting. Wouldn't you rather someone worse off than you and struggling - not just financially-getting the help they need? do you not question why your nanny with her expertise and with the money she is getting paid really has to go to such a centre when she could find so many other ways to entertain and develop your child? I just think your emotions about it all may be clouding your judgement a bit.