gsirett

bump

and one further point, I promise to calm down everybody

StraferJack Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > and remember people gsirret has started a petition > thread so you don't get confused > > And to make sure you don't get condused he's > reminding you here as well!! > > And if YOU don't sign up he will look foolish - as > well as being a 2 dimensional, one-note character, > he will be a DEFEATED 2 dimensional, one-note > character. He has told the council that hardly > anyone wants this and only 200 of you are > supporting him!!! Come on people!!! > > As I've said many a time, I'm against the CPZ but > this guy and a few of his buds have made me > hopeful it will go through. I'll be able to tell > where he lives by the black cloud above his house StraferJack I?ve got two answers to you, an emotional one and then a statistical one: 1.Emotional I'm sorry I've upset you so much. I hope you take great pleasure in me looking foolish, if it happens. If creating 2nd thread was the wrong thing to do, I again apologise. I?ve also put a couple of posters up, sorry in advance if that offends you too. From my perspective, I found out about this scheme and consultation about a week ago. I think the scheme is flawed, and I want to have my say. I discover that Southwark are Consulting with a small minority of residents and campaigning strongly to get this through. I decide (first time ever with local politics) to get involved and try to balance out their efforts. I don?t care if I look foolish: if local people want this flawed scheme, then that?s the way it is. I do not believe they do and I do not believe it will be stopped unless somebody takes some action. Yes, I?ve banged on about it (you should ask my Mrs) but I think this had to be communicate this to the people of ?greater East Dulwich? if Southwark were intent on not doing so, this forum has hopefully achieved that to some extent. I?ve also been increasingly frustrated by the attitude of our councillors, refusing to listen to the ?no? people. On that note, I guess I am the "one individual" to which you refer? I'm about to contact James Barber directly becuase, yes, you're right I have had some very strong views about his behavoiur on this issue and have been forthright in posting those views. If you look back through my posts, I have stressed on numerous occasions that I respect James Barber and the work he does. I have also been quite clear that I think his handling/behavoiur in relation to this CPZ has been biased towards a "yes". I maintain that opinion. 2. Statistical reply a) CPZ proposed on the basis of 45 complaints in 3 years (not sure population of proposed zone,) b) in 24 hours 200 people sign a petition (approx.) . We?ve asked every one whether ?for?/?against? and, guess what, 2 people are for, the rest against As a survey ? that IS significant. c) Bearing in mind that the ONLY publicity for our petition was on this forum, then 200 people in 24 hours, I would say again is not a bad start in terms of numbers. Southwark have had a month to collect responses. A month in which people known to be more in favour have been sent a glossy brochure and our local councillors have added their full weight to the scheme. Now, if only we could get a little bit more time for the consultation... If I?m being 2 dimensional & one note, again, and that upsets you. Sorry. Probably better to TRY and do something though eh ?

I've just been to have a look at the signitures collected for our petiton so far. It looks like we've collected c.200 signitures in 24 hours, thats amazing, well done to everybody whos signed. BUT IT'S NOT ENOUGH. Southwark are refusing to tell us when they would take notice of our petition, they've also refused to extend the consultation by a couple of weeks (although have carefully avoided using the word NO) and haven't allowed us to use their own online petition tool. So,we have to fight. We have to ensure that as many people in the area know about this proposal and (if they are in objection) as many people sign a petition as possible. We have until Thursday night (allowing time to submit to southwark before their "consultation " finishes.) So, DO YOUR BIT, read below and get involved. It's your last chance to stop this badly conceived scheme ================================================ WHERE TO SIGN THE PETITION only a petition stands any chance of stopping this. It needs to be presented by Friday You can sign our petition to stop the CPZ at all of the following local businesses (they?ve all got copies of the petition sheets) Please, please can as many people try to sign before Thursday, as the petition has to be presented on Friday. So, make sure you stop in for a drink/plant/asprin /newspaper/paintbrush on the way home tonight and SIGN THE PETITION Please note - as well as signing the petitions, it is essential to complete the Southwark Consultation here (click on "We invite you to submit your comments online now"). http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/200308/current/2280/grove_vale_area And please encourage as many people to do the same. SARP Newsagents (on corner Grove Vale & Melbourne Grove, near station) The Vale Pub, Grove Value Shauns DIY, Grove Value Dulwich Garden Centre Mark & Son Newsagent, Grove Vale (Next to Shauns DIY) Petals (clothes shop), Melbourne Grove Therapy, Melbourne Grove Angel Upholstery, Melbourne Grove Ronnies Supermarket, East Dulwich Grove Dolphin Dry Cleaners, East Dulwich Grove (corner with Glengarry)

well, at least we don't have a controlled parking scheme in East Dulwich......http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,772215

WHERE TO SIGN THE PETITION only a petition stands any chance of stopping this. It needs to be presented by Friday You can sign our petition to stop the CPZ at all of the following local businesses (they?ve all got copies of the petition sheets) Please, please can as many people try to sign before Thursday, as the petition has to be presented on Friday. So, make sure you stop in for a drink/plant/asprin /newspaper/paintbrush on the way home tonight and SIGN THE PETITION And please encourage as many people to do the same. SARP Newsagents (on corner Grove Vale & Melbourne Grove, near station) The Vale Pub, Grove Value Shauns DIY, Grove Value Dulwich Garden Centre Mark & Son Newsagent, Grove Vale (Next to Shauns DIY) Petals (clothes shop), Melbourne Grove Therapy, Melbourne Grove Angel Upholstery, Melbourne Grove Ronnies Supermarket, East Dulwich Grove Dolphin Dry Cleaners, East Dulwich Grove (corner with Glengarry) Please note - as well as signing the petitions, don't forget to fill in the Southwark Consultation here (click on "We invite you to submit your comments online now"). http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/200308/current/2280/grove_vale_area (Admin. I know that there is already a thread on this subject, but I feel that (being such an important issue) people should be able to clearly find how they go about signing this petittion.....therefore would apprecite if we can keep this as its own thread

James Barber Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The nearer the station the more they wanted > controlled parking and vice versa. Very clear > those furthest away didn't want it. Not really > very surprising results. > I suspect you'll rediscover this via your petition > when you analyse the results. OK, so some local residents wanted it and some didn't. Fair enough. So, whats the best way to decide whether to go ahead.......... a) look at for fors/againsts, and see what the majority want to do. Or b) Repeat, only this time only ask a small number of people, you know to be in favour of such a scheme One of these is a fair, democratic, process. One of these is an unethical attempt to achieve your objective

James Barber Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hi Zak, > But Southwark know that from the 2002/3 CPZ > consultation all over East Dulwich. And what was the outcome of that consultation james? What did the people of ED want ?

Did anybody attend the dulwich community council meeting last night? Of so, any chance you could post a summary here ?

milk76 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > You might not like his posts, his politics, or > indeed him. However if you cannot see that he is > bending over backwards to facilitate your ability > to effectively register your opinions you are > simply bonkers. I have spent the last couple of years watching cllr barbers career develop on this forum. I've developed a strong respect for him, especially his foresight to engage on a forum like this. I've lost that respect in the last 6 days. JMes has shamelessly promoted a scheme, not discussed it, promoted it..... Whilst trying to maintain a veil of objectivity. I am not a pro car nut. I hardly drive. I actually think CPZ's are a sensible idea. Just not this one. It's design is flawed, it will not add overall benefit to the community. Once the ability of the people on the 15 concerned streets to park outside thir houses is removed, then actually what are the benefits/ negatives??

Self serving.....hmmmmm..... Maybe better used for a bunch of people who'd rather that THEIR parking problem gets pushed onto glen garry, ondine, Melbourne ( other end) or any of the other roads ? Please READ the exchange with Barrie Hargrove..... Nothing to do with not liking his answer. If he'd said no, fair enough. He Didn't answer, he avoided And one last thing .... Is The "majority" that you talk of the 45 people, in 3 years, who have mangaged to write to their councillor about this or the other 20,000 people who have a stake in this area ? your pre-conceived view of what people will say amazes ME. You are a perfect demonstration of my issue with southwark, lots of suspect facts and a very strong motive

YOU COULDN'T MAKE THIS UP.......... My local councillor suggested that I ask Barrie Hargrove to extend the consultation by a couple of weeks "it's a reasonable suggestion, I'm sure he can't object" You need to read the follwing email thread (start at the bottom).......these people will NOT give a straight answer (edited to keep names out & sorry about the formatting)... ========================= [local resident] to Barrie "At this stage" ? as your consultation finishes on Friday, when may a stage be that you would agree ? So, I guess your "no mined to agree at this stage", means NO ? ========================= On 7 November 2011 19:10, Hargrove, Barrie wrote:Dear [local resident], I am sorry that my answer is not to your liking. I am not prepared to completely rule out an extension but I am not minded to agree at this stage. Barrie ======================== From: [local resident] To: Hargrove, Barrie Cc: Eckersley, Toby; Sent: Mon Nov 07 19:02:21 2011 Subject: Re: Consultation on East Dulwich CPZ Barrie I will keep asking, whilst you keep giving me an answer saying "it is unlikely". I am not asking whether you agree with my suggestion, I am asking you whether, as the person respsonbile for such a decision, you are prepared to extend the consultation process by two weeks ? I have asked you formally, so can you please answer yes or no to my question - are you prepapred to extend the consultation process by two weeks ? Yes or no please =============== On 7 November 2011 18:53, Hargrove, Barrie wrote:Dear [local resident], I refer you to my answer given already twice below. Id est, it is unlikely I would agree to a two week extension of the consultation. I think I went to some lengths to set out out for you my reasoning as to why I do not agree with your suggestion. Of course it is your progative to keep asking me if you perhaps don't like the answer I am providing, but the answer I am providing you is as far as I'm concerned given in all good faith. All best wishes, Barrie From: [local resident] [mailto:[local resident]. Sent: 07 November 2011 18:43 To: Hargrove, Barrie Cc: Eckersley, Toby; Dailey Subject: Re: Consultation on East Dulwich CPZ Barrie. For the third time. Are you prepared to extend the consultation process by a two week period or not ? I am not, repeat, not asking you to change any other factor (boundaries,etc) of the consultation. please answer the question =================================== On 7 November 2011 18:37, Hargrove, Barrie wrote:Dear [local resident], The implications of what you are asking me is to change the boundaries of the consultation area and this I am not at stage or probably not at a later stage, prepared to do. As it stands, residents outside of the consultation area are welcome to and will no doubt continue to submit their comments, and they will be given due weight by officers writing the report, community council's commenting on the officers report and me making the final decision on whether to proceed or not with a CPZ in the Grove Vale area, around East Dulwich Train Station. All best wishes, Councillor Barrie Hargrove Cabinet Member for Transport, Environment & Recycling London Borough of Southwark =========================================== From: [local resident] [mailto:[local resident] Sent: 07 November 2011 18:30 To: Hargrove, Barrie Cc: Eckersley, Toby; ; Gellard, Paul Subject: Re: Consultation on East Dulwich CPZBarry please provide a direct answer. Stop avoiding the question. Are you prepared to extend the consultation process by a two week period or not ? Not change it. Just extend it for a further two weeks? ============================================= On 7 November 2011 18:26, Hargrove, Barrie wrote:Dear [local resident], I never say never. But as you will see from my response I am far from minded to at this stage. All best wishes, Barrie =================================================== -----Original Message----- From: [local resident] [mailto:[local resident].Sent: 07 November 2011 18:25 To: Hargrove, Barrie Cc: Eckersley, Toby; ; Gellard, Paul Subject: Re: Consultation on East Dulwich CPZ So, please be clear, are you refusing to extend the consultation? Kind regards [local resident] ================================================= On 7 Nov 2011, at 18:20, "Hargrove, Barrie" wrote:> Dear [local resident], > Thank you for your suggestion. However, I am not minded to agree. The consultation area was drawn up in response to the number of complaints by residents in the Grove Vale area. These residents came to Southwark Council to complain that they were regularly not able to park outside or near their homes. This tells me there is a definite problem in that particular locale and our response has been to consult on a possible CPZ. Clearly there are concerns beyond the boundary areas, some about the current lack of parking space and some about the possible knock on effects if a CPZ was introduced. Despite this CPZ being particularly contraversial, fuelled to someextent by certain commentators on the East Dulwich Forum, I am content that the boundaries of the consultation as were first proposed were correct for this period in time. I remain convinced it best to let the residents within the boundary areas respond and a decision be made, after the relevant community councils (Dulwich and Camberwell) ar invited to comment on the outcome of the consultation. As Councillor Eckersley well knows (although perhaps in fairness he feels he probably feels he needs to pay little heed to East Dulwich Ward and South Camberwell Ward residents as those in Village Ward), any re-drawing of the boundaries which results in an outcome which(inevitably - either for or against) residents within the curren consultation area disagree with will be very vulnerable to accusation of tampering. Moreover, I am already receiving comments (against) from much further afield along Lordship Lane about this proposal. I suggest to you, although you may well think it a good thing, that were we to extendthe boundaries of the consultation beyond the vicinity of East Dulwich Train Station we would be drawn into a massive consultation for a very large swathe of the area, particularly Dulwich, which would be unpopular and completely unaffordable, especially by a Council that has just received the largest cuts in living memory to its Central Government grant. All best wishes, Barrie Councillor Barrie Hargrove Cabinet Member for Transport, Environment and Recycling London Borough ========================================================= > From: [local resident] [mailto:[local resident].om] > Sent: 07 November 2011 17:41 > To: Hargrove, Barrie > Cc: Eckersley, Toby; Dailey > Subject: Consultation on East Dulwich CPZ> Barrie > I am writing to you to formally request that the current consultation > on the proposed CPZ around East Dulwich station is extended for a > further two weeks. I, like many local residents, have only become aware of the consultation within the last week, due to information on The East Dulwich Forum Website. As it has been stated that views of people in neighbouring streets will be taken into account when any decision is made, and that Southwark has not directly contacted any of these people, a two week extension seems resonable to allow these views to be properly considered. I have spoken to Councillor Eckersley on this matter and he is in full support of extending the consultation

Reminder: Dulwich Community Council 7pm tonight. St Barnabus Church

The Mr Creosote sketch. The part of The Maitre D is played by Cllr James Barber. The part of Mr Creosote is played by a local resident. CLLR BARBER: Oh! Very well, monsieur. Thank you so much. So nice to see you, and I hope very much we will see you again very soon. Au revoir, monsieur. [clunk] Oh, dear. I have trodden in monsieur's bucket. GUESTS:[mumbling] [slurp] CLLR BARBER: Another bucket for monsieur,... [goosh] ...and perhaps a hose. M-hm. CONSTITUANT: [groaning] CLLR BARBER: And finally, monsieur, a wafer-thin Controlled parking zone CONSTITUANT: Nah. CLLR BARBER: Oh, sir, it's only a tiny, little, thin one. CONSTITUANT:No. F**K off. I don't want it. CLLR BARBER:Oh, sir. Hmm? CONSTITUANT: [groan] CLLR BARBER:It's only wafer thin, it won?t cost much CONSTITUANT: Look. I couldn't afford another thing. I'm absolutely stuffed. Bu**er off. CLLR BARBER: Oh, sir, just-- just one. CONSTITUANT:[groaning] All right. Just one. CLLR BARBER:Just the one, monsieur. Voil?. CONSTITUANT:[groaning] CLLR BARBER:Bon app?tit. CONSTITUANT:[groaning] [suspenseful music] [music stops] [crash] [bOOM] [goosh] [goosh] [mayhem] CLLR BARBER: Thank you, sir, and now, here's ze bill. =============================== Please note - as well as signing the petitions (details:http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,783328) , don't forget to fill in the Southwark Consultation here http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/200308/current/2280/grove_vale_area

James Barber Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Yes I would grisett. > > So I will ensure that univeral controlled parking > - as per effectively what your petiiton asks > doesn't happen in East Dulwich No James, as prevoiusly posted, we are asking ""we the undersigned residents of East Dulwich, opppose the implmnetation of the planned Controlled parking Zone (CPZ) in East Dulwich" Didn't use the word "universal" - that isn't what we want.That would proably mean that we were a bunch of pro-car, Driving is My God Given Right fanatics (with a bit of NIMBY). We're not. In fact I drive once or twice a month (mainly cycle and use ED station). Just think the propsed scheme ain't gonna work (for the whole community that is) But, it is a positive, we are getting somewhere. If you'll present the petition then that would be a great help for us. And, I don't think we've done a bad job seeing we only found out about this late last week and we've only got until Friday

James Barber Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hi first Mate, > I'm really sorry if I've inadvertantly patronised > anyone. Really not my intention. > ...... > I'm absolutely not dismissive of people wanting to > encourage others to respond or sign petitions. But > I think its misguided to pretend a petition is > related to a public consultation when the petiton > question is so clearly not. James Barber, I'm going to come out and ask this straight. Voters of East Dulwich please take note. If a petition created and signed by by the people of East Dulwich showed an overwhelming (and statistically significant) opposition to a plan by Southwark Council, would you, as their elected repesentative, feel obliged to present that case, on behalf of those people, to the council? Is so will you do this with our petition (presuming it is significant of course) to stop this CPZ? Please don't give me your politicians response. Please reply YES or NO to both of the questions. Just one of those words. Any other reply, I will presume, as will many other people, that you trying to say no without doing so

I've told you what We're asking and I believe it is the same as the first question on the consultAtion If you still think it's not going to be considered, then be a useful chappie and tell me why. We are asking for full addresses and will do some PROPER analysis of results,don't you worry In the library on Saturday, great emphasis was placed on the fact that there had just been a "pro" petition presented with 50 signatures. Was the same validation done on that petition before it was used as a further argument for this scheme?

James Barber Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hi grsirett, > If a petition isn't answering the consultation > questions then it would carry little weight. > Do The people being asked to sign know what has > been proposed and the options? If they do then > fine but the question you've posed doesn't. I, James barber, am prepared to ignore a petition by 3000 ( just an arbitrary figure) Of my constituents whilst driving through a scheme based on 45 complaints Go on James, type it, just type it

Controlled parking zone See thread at top of ED forum

You won't recognise them James , cos you ain't asked 691 figure, we had to add up ( in the library, with your collegue, using your survey results) 507 figure, again, straight from the pin-board in the library The rest is maths that my 7 year old could do

why would it be wasted James? don't you take petitions from your constituants into account when forcing things on them? "we the undersigned residents of East Dulwich, opppose the implmnetation of the planned Controlled parking Zone (CPZ) in East Dulwich" You have gone to great lengths to tell us how this scheme has been asked for by "a significant number local of residents" (turns out to be 45 people over a 3 year period). How it will make everybodys life better (turns out it actually reduces residents parking available). How you're consulting with us (despite nearly everybody I speak to not knowing that you're in a consultation). How it isn't being seen as a revnue generator, as it's revenue is ringfenced (turns out it can be used to repair pot-holes instead og council tax money. It is my intention to present you with a "siginificant" petition of local feeling

if anybody is doing their own petition and doesn't know where to send it, drop it in at one of the above shops and we'll pick up and send to southwark. If you want to arrange your own, then feel free to copy one of the blank sheets at any of the above places

WHERE TO SIGN THE PETITION only a petition stands any chance of stopping this. It needs to be presented by Friday You can sign our petition to stop the CPZ at all of the following local businesses (they?ve all got copies of the petiotn sheets) Please, please can as many people try to sign before Thursday, as the petition has to be presented on Friday. So, make sure you stop in for a drink/plant/asprin /newspaper/paintbrush on the way home tonight and SIGN THE PETITION And please encourage as many people to do the same. SARP Newsagents (on corner Grove Vale & Melbourne Grove, near station) The VaLE Pub, Grove Value Shauns DIY, Grove Value Dulwich Garden Centre Mark & Son Newsagent, Grove Vale (Next to Shauns DIY) Petals (clothes shop), Melbourne Grove Therapy, Melbourne Grove Angel Upholstery, Melbourne Grove Ronnies Supermarket, East Dulwich Grove Dolphin Dry Cleaners, East Dulwich Grove (corner with Glengarry)

WHERE TO SIGN THE PETITION only a petition stands any chance of stopping this. It needs to be presented by Friday You can sign our petition to stop the CPZ at all of the following local businesses (they?ve all got copies of the petition sheets) Please, please can as many people try to sign before Thursday, as the petition has to be presented on Friday. So, make sure you stop in for a drink/plant/asprin /newspaper/paintbrush on the way home tonight and SIGN THE PETITION And please encourage as many people to do the same. SARP Newsagents (on corner Grove Vale & Melbourne Grove, near station) The Vale Pub, Grove Value Shauns DIY, Grove Value Dulwich Garden Centre Mark & Son Newsagent, Grove Vale (Next to Shauns DIY) Petals (clothes shop), Melbourne Grove Therapy, Melbourne Grove Angel Upholstery, Melbourne Grove Ronnies Supermarket, East Dulwich Grove Dolphin Dry Cleaners, East Dulwich Grove (corner with Glengarry) Please note - as well as signing the petitions, don't forget to fill in the Southwark Consultation here (click on "We invite you to submit your comments online now"). http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/200308/current/2280/grove_vale_area (Admin. I know that there is already a thread on this subject, but I feel that (being such an important issue) people should be able to clearly find how they go about signing this petittion.....therefore would apprecite if we can keep this as its own thread

WHERE TO SIGN THE PETITION only a petition stands any chance of stopping this. It needs to be presented by Friday You can sign our petition to stop the CPZ at all of the following local businesses (they?ve all got copies of the petiotn sheets) Please, please can as many people try to sign before Thursday, as the petition has to be presented on Friday. So, make sure you stop in for a drink/plant/asprin /newspaper/paintbrush on the way home tonight and SIGN THE PETITION And please encourage as many people to do the same. SARP Newsagents (on corner Grove Vale & Melbourne Grove, near station) The VaLE Pub, Grove Value Shauns DIY, Grove Value Dulwich Garden Centre Mark & Son Newsagent, Grove Vale (Next to Shauns DIY) Petals (clothes shop), Melbourne Grove Therapy, Melbourne Grove Angel Upholstery, Melbourne Grove Ronnies Supermarket, East Dulwich Grove Dolphin Dry Cleaners, East Dulwich Grove (corner with Glengarry)