prickle

Well, its good that they had the meeting after missing a few. I hope the SMT will really get to grips with dealing with these difficult issues. Was there any mention of the GCSE results?

Can you elaborate?

Thank you Renata - I take it then that the school is not making their results public until they have to. I suppose in the grand scheme of things this should not matter but I was told at an open day by a senior member of staff that the results will definitely be out by the end of October (ie before CAF deadline). They really should not be giving out hollow promises when they have no intention of carrying it out.

Renata Hamvas Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Have contacted Kingsdale and waiting to hear back > from them. > Renata Hi Renata, sorry to chase but wondered if you ever heard back from the school? I know it's too late to be of any use for CAF but I'm really curious to hear their response.

Thanks Renata for your efforts. Today is deadline for CAF - shame on them for not publishing the results in time.

Hi Renata, do you have any news on Kingsdale's GCSE results? Have they been released yet? If not please can you make enquiries? CAF deadline is looming... Thank you.

As for the commute, my older child goes to a local comprehensive where most children walk to the school. Not only can they get up later (and believe me, teenagers REALLY need their sleep) but their busy social life can happen without a taxi service from me :)

Yes, a v. interesting thread. LondonMix said "My high school catered for the top 1% of peformers nationally (standardized tests back then in the US were on relative not absolute performance). It seems unreasonable to expect a state comprehensive to cater appropriately for such a small percentage of the student population given the tiny numbers involved. While a state comprehensive is greate for 99% of children, the few who go to grammar school probably do benefit and I can't see why that's so controversial. " I would say it was perfectly reasonable for the state comprehensives to cater for all students including the 'top' 1%. They have special sessions/programmes for the top (and bottom) ability groups. The so called 'top' students will benefit from a more rounded education as what a local comprehensive system teaches you is that there is more to learn about life than just academics. It teaches you how society works, rich/poor, clever/dim, white/black, powerful/powerless. By learning to rub along with the rest of us and not be creamed off into some super-elite school, your children will be far better equipped to deal with the intricacies of real life when they are older.

Thanks Renata. Sensible advice, particularly about sitting the banding tests?

touch?

Thanks, Curmudgeon. It's a start but would be good to see the full list. Also not everything on wiki is always up to date.

Debi, I've had a quick search too and pls see below all the links. Pls do not accuse me of making things up. I'm afraid at least locally it is an issue more or less specific to Kingsdale. Any light you can shed on the whereabouts of the Kingsdale list of governors would be most welcome. Well, now this is interesting. I've had a quick online check of the schools mentioned by Prickle and may have missed something but this is what I found when looking for a list of governors. I'm bowing out now as I don't think this is an issue specific to Kingsdale and I'm too busy to spenbd any more time on this. Harris Girls, can't find http://www.harrisdulwichgirls.org.uk/34/meet-our-governors Haberdashers, can't find http://www.haaf.org.uk/index.php?/about/fed-governers/ Bacon's, chair of govs only - contact via school http://www.baconsctc.co.uk/the-school/govs-and-trustees.aspx Charter, full list http://www.charter.southwark.sch.uk/page/?title=The+Governing+Body&pid=293 Dunraven, can't find http://www.dunraven.org.uk/page/?title=Who%27s+who&pid=47 Elm Green, can't find http://www.the-elmgreen-school.org.uk/governing-body Walworth, can't find http://www.walworthacademy.org/governors Sydenham School can't find http://www.sydenham.lewisham.sch.uk/governors

Saffron, the info on the various websites vary but most of them just give the names and the type of governor they are eg staff, parent, local authority. They don't give their contact details so presumably you have to contact them via the school. Some give an email address by which they can contact the governors.

Debi, does that mean that the list of Kingsdale governors are not in the public domain and not on the website? I have looked at websites of other schools in the local area that I am interested in and their board of govenors are all on their website - Harris Girls, Haberdashers, Bacon's, Charter, Dunraven, Elm Green, Walworth, Sydenham School. Even if it is not required by law (not sure if it is or not), surely as a gesture of openess and accountability they should be published? Could you explain why you think that its desirable not to have a publicly accessible list of governors?

Hi me again. Just a quick question that I hope one of the Kingsdale parents can help me out with. I'm looking for the list of Governors on the Kingsdale website but have had no luck. Pls can one of you post me a link to it? Thank you

Debster99 - TES is as far as I know is a respected publication covering educational matters staffed by proper journalists. Anyway I am bowing out of this debate for now as clearly opinions of most of you are fixed and you are happy to trust the team that run Kingsdale. Let's hope you are right. ETA I took 'exam officer' to mean the teacher at the school who is responsible for organising the external exams, not the 'moderator' who obviously is someone external to the school.

Debster99 - TES is as far as I know is a respected publication covering educational matters staffed by proper journalists. Anyway I am bowing out of this debate for now as clearly opinions of most of you are fixed and you are happy to trust the team that run Kingsdale. Let's hope you are right.

Curmudgeon you said "...that existing and future students will benefit from the certainty that exams at Kingsdale be whiter than white.." How can you be so certain? Here are a few quotes from the TES article linked in by InTexas earlier in this thread. It was written in June this year. "the school is still using the same exams officer as when the allegations were made, a claim that Kingsdale has not denied" "A letter, seen by TES, written by Ofqual?s chief regulator Glenys Stacey to the MP of one of the whistleblowers, refers to ?legal action taken by the school against the awarding organisations?. ?This aspect has delayed the conclusion of the investigation,? Ms Stacey writes." "When he was approached by TES, Kingsdale head Steve Morrison denied that the school had taken legal action. A statement from the school later revealed that legal proceedings have been considered, although ?not yet commenced?, to give the exam boards ?the chance to rectify the position?." Does this sound like a school that is working hard to sort out their exam system? edited for typos

"Prickle ... no I am not sure that there is nothing to worry about at Kingsdale. I am a concerned parent and no school is perfect. All I can say with certainty is that my sons are thriving in a positive educational environment created by a group of senior managers, including the head, Mr Morrison, who it is clear to me are motivated by the best of intentions. Is anybody suggesting otherwise?" To answer your question, yes it's clear that there are people who are suggesting otherwise. Judging by people I know, the head at KD is a bit of a Marmite. Some people love him, others the opposite. I think he did a good and thorough job to turn round a failing school into the success that it is today. He had to be very tough to do it. There is a link to an article in the Sunday Times in which he is interviewed about this experience. http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/article89064.ece (sorry you've got to pay to see the full story!) But you have to face the facts. Things are not going right now for Kingsdale. Having a third (43 out of 125 teachers) of your teaching force leaving your school in one year is a serious management issue. Having an ofsted section 8 inspection pending is a serious management issue. Being investigated for cheating in examinations is a serious management matter. What is he doing to deal with these issues? Reading all the above testaments from parents about the school, it does make me wonder. You all state that your children are doing really well at KD. This is great. It should be that way. But we are adults. We know that things are not that simple. The children may be fine now but what of the future? One final thought about the Channel 4 piece. Chloe Smith's testament was the thing that has remained with me. She could be one of your children in a few years. She came across as an ordinary but intelligent and articulate girl like many I know locally. What worry and angst that she must have gone through?

Oggy, I am so sorry to hear about your son. He is right to be proud of the school and its his right to feel happy there. But are you absolutely sure given what you have read in this thread and elsewhere that there is nothing to worry about at Kingsdale?

"I don't think that Kingsdale is any more high profile than say Pimlico Academy ( frequently visited by all colours - Balls latterly and now Gove ). And they too seem to be keeping their latest exam results close to their chest . " I suppose if you are a high profile school (and that is the school's decision to court publicity), then you have more to lose if news is not so good. I also agree that this thread is worth saving re: info about the results

"I think interviewing a student and staff member made for good TV but wouldn't hold up in court or any appropriate official investigation as one should hear both sides and view evidence - however I believe that the PUBLIC ARENA (newspapers / fora) is not the place for these discussions" The interviews would not hold up in court but they have all made statements which probably will. In a country with free speech, discussions in the public arena of any matter that concerns the community (and don't forget KD is a community, state funded school) is appropriate, indeed vital. If Kingsdale is not happy about what is discussed then they should take steps to communicate their standpoint - and not just by pulling threads from fora with threats of litigation. "I don't see how the school can win - but more importantly I can only see how local families and children can lose out" I agree with you here - but are you saying that the school is blameless?

I have seen the Channel 4 piece and I think Kingsdale got off lightly in the coverage. The piece only featured what happened in the past and how it was unresolved, but did not mention what is going on now - ie the non-disclosure of this year's exam results and the alleged high turnover of staff (including most of the science department being NQT) Given KD's track record of being litigation happy, I expect the Channel 4's lawyers have been all over the report and played safe.

Thank you for this Renata, very clear and helpful. I wonder what is your view if a child has a sibling at a school (that has a sibling policy)? A place is surely guaranteed? Do you still need to choose 5 other schools, given that even if you put them down 'just in case' your child may have to attend several banding assessments to schools that they are not likely to go to.

The appeal was the cutthrough between Dylways and Wanley Road and it is marked on this map.