Rockets

goldilocks Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > As its been a while... > > this is your regular reminder that (if you're > using this thread as any kind of source of info > rather than just the usual suspects arguing) there > is no council data showing increased pollution on > major roads. > > Some groups opposed to LTNs have done their own > monitoring, and some people have used individual > peak data and quoted this against maximum > averages. > > Caveat emptor > > > > > Jellybeanz Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > march46 Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > I notice that as well as the Dulwich schemes > > being > > > made permanent, there are several other > London > > > boroughs announcing similar this week. A > > positive > > > start to 2022. > > > > > > Lambeth - Railton and Oval > > > > > > https://twitter.com/lambethlivingst/status/1478727 > > > > > > 399298809858?s=21 > > > Lewisham - Lewisham and Lee Green > > > > > > https://twitter.com/lewishamcouncil/status/1478450 > > > > > > 423484792849?s=21 > > > Enfield - Bowes > > > > > > https://twitter.com/enfieldcouncil/status/14783257 > > > > > > 82736945160?s=21 > > > > I think the principle idea of LTNs is a good > one > > BUT I do not think they work in certain areas / > > for certain streets. In ED they have > undoubtedly > > caused more traffic and pollution on the main > > roads, which are jammed esp at peak times. > > > > Yes you can argue more people now walk or cycle > > but was that just a lockdown effect when many > > (myself included) could work from home as the > > office wasn't open and thus have more time as > no > > longer commuting. > > > > Monitors are showing pollution has increased on > > main roads and as we know Lordship Lane and > many > > other well used roads, especially A roads like > the > > south circular, have residents who deserve > > consideration too, as they will be breathing in > > more heavily polluted air. > > > > We used to live near the junction of Lordship > Lane > > and Dulwich Common and my husband had heart > > problems as a result of breathing polluted air. > > The health issues disappeared when we moved on > to > > a side road. > > > > I think we all need to be more understanding > > towards the other side here and those who have > > "won" on having LTN road closures made > permanent > > need to check themselves (why are you in > favour? > > is it personal gain as you live on a road that > has > > been closed to vehicles or is it because you > think > > the wider population has benefited?) and look > at > > what those against or in favour (depending on > your > > side) are saying. > > > > Many businesses have been badly affected by > LTNs. > > Callow Locksmiths for example have moved from > > Melbourne Grove to Lordship Lane as they > weren't > > getting the passing trade. Yes the kids at > Charter > > East benefit from walking down a safer road but > > once they have walked a few minutes they are > back > > on Lordship Lane and East Dulwich Grove / Grove > > Vale anyway. > > > > I personally am against the LTNs as they slow > down > > public transport having caused more vehicles to > > use main roads. I like the idea of less traffic > > but LTNs do not force people to stop using > their > > cars, they simply take a different route. And that might be because the council has not released any pollution monitoring data. The only report on pollution levels they have released is based on modelling and that modelling concluded that there were negligible differences in pollution. Here is an excerpt: Using the EPUK IAQM criteria, the changes in concentrations at school locations in the scheme area are classed as Negligible. For the majority of building fa?ade locations along scheme roads, the changes in concentration are classed as Negligible. Non-negligible impacts at building fa?ade locations are predicted for annual average NO2 concentrations in areas shown in Figure 1.1. Areas where Beneficial impacts (air quality improves) or Adverse impacts (air quality worsens) are predicted include: ? Moderate Beneficial and Slight Beneficial impacts on Grove Vale, from Vale End to Elsie Road and Ondine Road to East Dulwich Road ? Slight Beneficial impact on Melbourne Grove, for an 80 m section of road from the junction with Grove Vale ? Slight Beneficial impact on Calton Avenue, from Court Lane to Woodwarde Road ? Slight Adverse impact on East Dulwich Grove, from Lordship Lane to Matham Grove What I can?t get my head around is the council is heralding supposed area wide reductions in traffic, what did they claim % wise in their infographic - was it 10%, yet their modelling suggests it is having limited impact on pollution. Surely pollution reductions should be in line with supposed reductions in actual journeys, unless of course there is more congestion? Does anyone know?

kissthisguy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Ahem. 260ish votes is a narrow margin in > Southwark. In 2018 DV was a fairly even three-way > split owing to brexit. The Tory vote took a big > ding (Windrush also a factor), the LDs made a good > showing based on an explicit anti brexit platform > and the jury was still out (or rather the Labour > party was fence-sitting) on their version of > Brexit. Many people 'lent' Labour their vote that > time round. Obviously LTNs are a divisive policy. > Those on closed road win with lowered air > pollution, a house price boost and the ability to > have an even better car-owning experience (car > ownership on those roads is high). Those on > displacement routes suffer from worsened air > quality, noise pollution and a very real > possibility of worsened physical and mental > health. Others who do not directly benefit or lose > out may be impacted by longer bus journey times > etc. As Rockets says, it will matter for some how > cllrs have handled an admittedly difficult issue > and I get the feeling that in DV people are pretty > fed up - and in that context, 260ish votes is a > margin that begins to look uncomfortably thin. > > > DuncanW Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > They're not narrow margins - even in Dulwich > > Village Many fail to realise that a lot of the people who are supposed to be benefitting the most (i.e. those living within the area seeing a reduction in traffic) are actually against the measures. There is a lot of anti-LTN sentiment on Woodwarde, Dovercourt, Druce, Court Lane etc and if that translates into votes against the incumbent councillors then those majorities become negligible. I also think there will be a bigger turnout on the basis of the LTNs and if the 2/3rd against ratio seen in the consultation turns into votes then it's goodbye Labour councillors. People aren't as protective with their council votes and people flip-flop between parties a lot more than they do in general elections and often use their votes to send a message to the national parties. What is clear is that the LTNs have massively damaged Labour councillor's reputations in the area - not only in the implementation but also in the way they are dealing with constituents who don't agree with them. Cllr Leeming's twitter feed is a salutary lesson in how not to win friends and influence people over LTNs!

Our postman just arrived and delivered the New Year Boden catalogue and a flyer for a retirement village in Surrey (are they trying to tell me something I wonder?!) I do wonder whether all the December post will ever make it to us.

DKHB - the problem for the Labour councillors in Goose Green and Dulwich Village is that their wards were some of the ones that were the closest run contests last time round in the borough. Now they have upset so many people in the area they could well be under pressure - a few hundred votes could swing it and that's the biggest problem for the councillors over LTNs - it's the last thing people will remember prior to the election as it has dragged on for so long and opposition to it has been so widespread. Add to that the fact that ahead of May we can presume all restrictions will be lifted so traffic will be back to it's congested worst on the displacement routes; this is why they are nervous. Some tactical voting in the Dulwich Village ward and Leeming and Newens are in big trouble. It's going to be fun watching what happens. Dulwich Village (2) Party Candidate Votes % ?% Labour Margy Newens 1,755 39.1 Labour Richard Leeming 1,580 35.2 Conservative Jane Lyons* 1,306 29.1 Conservative Andrew Mitchell* 1,281 28.5 Liberal Democrats Brigid Gardner 1,259 28.0 Liberal Democrats Ruth Gripper 1,124 25.0 Goose Green (3) Party Candidate Votes % ?% Labour Victoria Olisa 2,372 49.7 Labour James McAsh 2,042 42.8 Labour Charlie Smith* 2,039 42.7 Liberal Democrats James Barber* 1,719 36.0 Liberal Democrats Clare Donachie 1,202 25.2 Women's Equality Claire Empson 1,075 22.5

What annoys me is that we, the consumer, are the ones who suffer. Management and unions, seemingly, supported the closure of the Silvester Road office and we are the ones who are feeling the pain - who was looking after our interests?

Cllr McAsh, Helen Hayes has been escalating this since Oct 2018 and it isn?t getting sorted out, it?s getting worse. Could you come back to us all with something tangible on what action is being taken to resolve? What are the next steps following your meeting with her today? We don?t want to hear about more ?escalation? we want resolution. Having no post for a month is utterly inexcusable - people rely on the postal service and it is failing people across Dulwich. Can you explain to us why you think they are using covid as an excuse - we keep hearing from postal workers that many are off sick with covid so is that not correct? Are postal workers actually being kept from doing their usual rounds to prioritise parcels? What is actually going on? I think it is time we hear what the real issues are and what is being done to resolve it because we have had over three years of the service getting worse and worse. After this debacle over Christmas it?s time for action.

The problem for Labour has been the civil war going on at all levels between the hard-left and centre-left and, unfortunately for us, Southwark is one of the key battlegrounds (I refer you to the great summary by someone on this thread on the battle on-going to replace Harriet Harman). Once in-fighting starts political parties take their eye off the ball and forget what matters and that's the voters. Given the huge majority Labour has in Southwark they weren't kept honest by having to fight opposition and have become, and continually act like, a one-party state. Just watch the council meetings and the way the Labour councillors treat the handful of Lib Dem councillors with contempt - it's what happens when you don't have to worry about the opposition - they are a minor inconvenience that have no ability to stop you doing what you want. Labour can basically railroad any policy they want and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Labour at national and local level (less so at regional level - mayor of London, Wales) have become so detached from the electorate it is really quite worrying. They got humiliated by the awful Tories in the general election and even in the North Shropshire by-election their votes dropped from 22.1% in 2019 to 9.7% but that got lost in the headlines about the Tories losing their 200-year old safe seat to the Lib Dems who I don't think anyone thought would ever win another seat after the coalition disaster. I think people are getting fed-up with Labour continually ignoring the electorate and then trying to blame everyone else for their own failings (2019 - "it wasn't Corbyn or Momentum it was the media that did for us, comrade", LTNs - "it's not our fault central govt forced us"). People only ever really want two things from their politicians: accountability and accessibility and the LTN debacle has demonstrated very clearly how little there is within Southwark Labour and I think for a lot of people their patience with them has worn-out. I always remember standing outside the Dulwich Library during the CPZ public hearing debacle when half the attendees were locked out of the meeting room and saw the way the councillors were treating and addressing the public who had turned up to have their say and it's when I first thought: hang on a minute, this isn't right. Why do they think they can behave like this, why are they talking down to everyone and ignoring people wanting to have their say?

Jenijenjen - I didn't vote in the last council elections and will make sure I do this time - this is the danger for Labour - that they have alienated a group of people who have never voted before in council elections and will do this time. Labour always relies on a core of voters who would never vote anything other than Labour no matter what - in fact, if you pinned a red rose to a turd they would vote for it - but it is your apathetic or swing voters than pose the greatest risk. One of the things that I heard was worrying Southwark Labour was that their door knocking to lobby people to respond to the LTN consultation targeted registered Labour members and many of them were very unhappy with the councillors over the LTNs and refused to toe-the-line and respond to the consultation. And remember this is what caused the Labour collapse in the Red Wall heartlands during the last election - a Labour leadership lost touch with and alienated their core because they focussed on echo-chamber policies that people on the ground could not relate to. So, if at the local level if previous non-voters turn out, swing voters make a protest vote and they can't rely on the Labour die-hards then they are in big trouble - as long, of course, as credible candidates run against them that people can relate to - and not just people on the anti-LTN ticket. I think that's where the Lib Dems come in - they can tweak policy, people can disassociate local Lib Dems from the shower that went into the coalition (look at what happened in the recent by-election before Christmas) and they would be credible. I have to think they are strategising about it as they could clean-up a few seats in Tooley Street if they are smart.

I worry that it has been such a long time that Royal Mail start dumping items and we will never seem them. I seem to remember that undelivered parcels go to die in Belfast so I wonder if there is a similar system in place for letters.

It was was way back in 2006 - 2010 window that Labour last didn't have a majority in Southwark (and in 2002 and 2006 no one had overall control) and their majority has grown to where they now hold around 80% of the seats. Any political party needs opposition to keep them honest - goodness me look at the mess at national level we have now because Corbyn and Momentum killed Labour in the election. We all desperately need Southwark council to have some opposition else the way they are acting over LTNs, the infill in Peckham, the pay-offs to disgraced Labour councillors who set-up fake twitter accounts to attack those who oppose the council goes unchecked and will get worse and worse. An 80% majority is an unhealthy situation for constituents in any political situation.

And on the Ivy Brasserie my concern would be where they would put the Ivy Asia as it seems that everywhere there is a Brasserie version an Asian version appears as if by magic next door!

Ha ha - I quote the 13th Duke of Wybourne from the Fast Show: Me? Local politics? With my reputation.....;-) I don't think a candidate at the local level would need to run on an anti-LTN agenda, just a balanced LTN agenda could clean-up a lot of disgruntled local votes and I think the Lib Dems could do that - tweak their policy to promise to listen and adjust LTNs on the basis of local voter sentiment. Despite the pro-LTN narrative to the contrary, no-one has ever said they want anything more than a more balanced approach to LTNs and that could be easy to deliver politically.

Malumbu - genuine question, is your request for an apology aimed at Cllr McAsh or posters on the forum?

Duncan - you?re confusing and conflating local, regional and national politics. Local politics is very a unpredictable beast and, you never know, maybe change is coming. Local elections get decided by how much local people feel motivated to vote for councillors and that is mainly determined by how much those councillors have done for the local community over issues like LTNs. Labour and our local councillors are worried by what might happen in the local wards come May and the motivating factor to get people out to vote against them (and remember turnout is always low in council elections so it won?t take much to make a change) will be the LTN debacle. Apparently the response the councillors got during the door knocking exercise after they extended the LTN consultation period shocked them and made them realise May is not the shoe-in they have enjoyed previously. And the behaviour and attitude of some councillors over the past months has damaged their perception and reputation locally amongst many voters who may never have cared about council elections before. The problem for some of our councillors is that you cannot fudge, manipulate or dictate the result of an election in the same way you can a consultation and there are a lot of local people who feel the ballot box is the only way they can now be heard.

It's going to be interesting to see what the Lib Dems do - they have a couple of councillors in the north of the borough and if they are smart they could tweak their approach to LTNs to grab a few in the south too on the basis of what is happening around Dulwich? A policy shift to start building some more seats at the Tooley Street table could benefit their long term aims. Lib Dems have done well as council level picking up protest seats against both Tory and Labour incumbents. I agree we need more than a one policy councillor as this is much broader than just LTNs. It was interesting to see that an FOI has revealed pressure was being exerted on Lambeth and TFL to help resolve the Croxted Road issue as "there are elections coming in May". Our councillors know they are under pressure - their margins are tiny and they know that if people mobilise to vote against them they are under pressure. If everyone registered with One Dulwich in the area voted against the local councillors and galvanised behind specific candidates the political landscape could change massively. Going to be fun to watch! DKHB - your 3rd point deserves no response, such is the ludicrous nature of it....deary me....

But Ex- are you saying it was bad that people were trying to manipulate the consultation or that the council culled a lot of the responses on the basis that they thought they were duplicates etc? It may be timely to remind you that there was far more external influence being exerted by the likes of Southwark Cyclists and LCC on consultations across the capital. Across London there have been plenty of accusations of Labour councils manipulating LTN data and consultations to their advantage: Southwark, Lambeth, Islington, Waltham Forest and so the list goes on all with very familiar dodgy tactics being used by all of them that don't stand any scrutiny. Is this a coincidence? And I am not buying the Govt forced them too narrative, I think we all know these Labour councillors too well to suggest that they do anything the govt suggests without some sort of fight and this might be the first time in history that they have! So they were certainly willingly complicite and even if the govt forced them to do something strategically their tactical execution has been utterly horrendous - that responsibility lies with local councils not central government. Ultimately it seems May is the only time people will have their chance to have their say. Let's see what happens and wether the Southwark Red Wall starts to slowly crumble. It's unhealthy to have one party dominance for so long (at any level) and we are seeing the worst of it in Southwark.

Here?s what the Royal Mail said to Southwark News in October??why the hell isn?t this fixed by now?.it?s got worse not better?.does the Peckham office have a higher level of sick absences than other offices? https://www.southwarknews.co.uk/news/east-dulwich-postage-delay-royal-mail/ A Royal Mail spokesperson said: ?In the East Dulwich area, we are experiencing some disruption to service due to high levels sick absences and colleagues on annual leave. We are looking to resolve the situation in the near term by offering colleagues additional overtime and by getting in more resource. ?We aim to deliver to all addresses we have mail for six days a week. In cases of high sick absences, we typically commit to delivering at least every other day. ?We apologise to customers for any inconvenience they may experience as we work hard to resolve the situation?

I think some tactical voting is needed to send a message to Tooley Street that they cannot ignore their constituents any longer. A handful of independents could start the revolution! It's clear Labour are abusing their continual almost one-party state rule and for the benefit of everyone there needs to be some tangible opposition.

exdulwicher Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Rockets - I'm no expert on council meetings > although I know the basic governance processes > from working with / for councils but the whole > point of a Scrutiny Committee is that the person / > people responsible for that policy are there in > the room to answer questions about it. This would > apply for transport matters, housing developments, > planning approval (councils often have a separate > committee specifically for that actually), > financial matters... > > No good questioning the policy if the people > responsible for it aren't in the room to be > questioned. It's a good thing they're there, not a > bad thing. > > For example, if the Overview & Scrutiny Committee > are going to look at the councils accounts, you > want the Chief Finance Officer in the room to > explain / justify / answer questions about it. No > good them hiding in an office somewhere saying "as > it's about my work, I can't be there". It's > imperative that they are there! But Cllr Newens is part of the Scrutiny Committee no matter what they are scrutinising so that's what led me to question whether she recuses herself and is replaced by a reserve if she has a vested interested in the items being scrutinised. I don't think she is invited because they are talking about LTNs, she is invited as she is one of the members of the Scrutiny committee.

Does anyone know why some roads would be getting deliveries yet others would have had nothing for so long?

Is that where this falls down then because there are so few cross-party members - it becomes partisan by virtue of there being so few opposition members? The fact that Cllr Newens gets to sit as part of the committee reviewing how the council has handled the LTN deployments in her own ward seems utterly ludicrous. Does she recuse herself from matters involving LTNs?

What annoys me is that there seems little appetite for anyone to fix the problems we are experiencing - everyone in the Royal Mail is great at giving the excuses but we never hear about what solutions are being put in place to fix it or when it will be fixed - the lack of post for so long across a whole area is a shamefully poor reflection of the postal service - it's no longer fit for purpose, people post things on the understanding that the items will be delivered within a certain timeframe and that is the contract they take with the Royal Mail when they buy a stamp or pay for postage. The fact that this is affecting a large swathe of South East London shows that something is totally broken within the system. We have not had any post for getting on a for a month and all of our neighbours and most in the area are in the same boat - how long can this be allowed to continue?

Did I hear correctly that the old bank in Dulwich Village might become an Ivy Brasserie?

Nope - I did see a postman last week and my hopes were lifted but they never arrived on our street. Perhaps one of the councillors can tell us what is being done to resolve this issue - I know Helen Hayes was intervening last year but it is getting beyond a joke now - how long before we can expect all the missed pre-Christmas deliveries or has Royal Mail given up ever having to deliver them?

What does the Overview and Scrutiny committee do - I see a number of the members are actually the pro-LTN protagonists within the council so isn't a bit of a pointless exercise?