Rockets

Oooh.....that may have lit the blue touchpaper.....the good folks on East Dulwich Grove, Croxted Road (remember TFL said congestion was being caused by the LTNs that got out local councillors into hot water with Will Norman over the way they treated TFL staff - who held their ground and refused to redact that part of the report that the councillors desperately wanted changing), Dulwich Village and Lordship Lane may have something to say about that! But I suspect you won't listen to them because you read a council report that said everything was awesome and there was no LTN displacement at all.....;-) Given that Dulwich'ites walk more than any others in Southwark (around 65% of local journeys are by foot) there can't be many of them who are unhappy because we've been walking the walk for years so your theory may not hold up! The trouble is, you don't actually read what people write. If you'd actually read what I wrote you would know the answer to this. I already stated it multiple time. If you care to know, you can find out by actually reading my posts. Was legitimately interested as you said in May that you wouldn't cycle so was wondering what the catalyst to change was - did you take the plunge and buy a bike or are you using rental bikes? I used to cycle from Dulwich to Hammersmith long before there was a cycle lane in sight and used to love it - bar a couple of hairy moments at the Battersea Park roundabout it was perfectly safe and a very enjoyable way to get to work!

Don't flatter yourself Mr Chicken I wasn't talking about you (as in Mr Chicken) but you as in any person that may live on a road that is benefitting positively from the LTNs...... Glad to hear that you are cycling now as back in May you said you didn't cycle because of how dangerous and polluted the roads were - have you now taken the plunge and bought a bike? Welcome to the cycling world!

And if Will and Sadiq were convinced there was going to be a ten-fold increase in cycling we really need to know why it's getting nowhere near and where those numbers came from and how are they going to deliver on them. It sounds like it may have been over-excited blusto based on the pandemic. I think cycle infrastructure is massively important but you can't keep adding more and more of it in the hope it triggers a revolution, especially when much of it negatively impacts other transport like buses. 13% is woefully low given the platform the pandemic provided and maybe time should be spent working out whether London will ever be an Amsterdam. Maybe London's size, topology and the fact most people live a long way out of the centre yet work in it (and many are well served by other transport links like trains and tubes) it just doesn't operate in a way that is conducive to mass cycling transportation. And I can't help but think that London has always been a fantastic walking city so many are happy to get transport in to central London and walk to their offices. I do wonder what the cost of acquisition for each one of those 13% increased cyclist numbers actually is - both in terms of actual cost and cost to other transportation modes.

Yes I wasn't expecting you to agree with me but it is how a lot of people see it....it's all about the lived experience of the measures and whether you live in them or outside them. But my faith in humanity is restored when I hear so many people living inside them challenging them on the basis of what it does for other people taking the 'I'm alright Jack" and turning it into "I'm alright Jack but concerned about how Jack down the road might not be having as good a time with them as I am".

Would they not have to reset and restart the consultation in its entirety and start again? I can't imagine any politician agreeing to do that, it's the mother of all U-turns and the charge of wasting taxpayers money could be levelled at them. And if they did it for one they would need to do it for the Dulwich ones too. And Snowy, that ten-fold increase Will and Sadiq were talking up should arrive in some time around 2320 given the current rate of cycling growth (13% between 2019 and 2022 according to TFL) - they must have omitted that part of their story. I joke but in all seriousness you can't just keep throwing money, resources and road space to something if it isn't ever going to deliver and that debate should be happening now.

Well only in respect of the fact that those that live inside them live with the carrot of less traffic whilst those outside them the stick of more traffic from the displacement.

But clearly it is not all untrue is it? Which part of it was untrue But I did. A very quick Internet search found the article in which Will Norman bigged up a ten fold increase in cycling so it is clearly true not untrue. And here is a link to an article with the Mayor "predicting" the same thing: https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2020/05/06/pop-up-cycleway-for-park-lane-as-tenfold-increase-in-cycling-predicted-for-london/ Honestly, do a quick Internet search before you accuse someone of posting something that is not true...it avoids egg on the face! The Mayor and Will Norman went on a charm offensive to help sell-in what they were doing (how they were spending the millions of £) with Streetspace during the pandemic and talked about a ten-fold increase in cycling. Alice you are right there are a group on here getting increasingly nasty in their posting who seem to do not like it when the truth is presented to them. I do hope they take stock and return to some semblance of normality. Have a debate by all means but don't resort to playground tactics.

I never said he said it will...I said he was bigging up a ten-fold increase...we haven't reached close to a one fold increase yet have we so some way to go don't you think...bottom line is the revolution never happened and there is nothing to indicate it ever will? He clearly talks about post-Covid when things return to normal - aren't we there yet? I am not angry...just correcting Snowy's "it's all untrue" statement - am I not allowed to do that? In tne last two days you and Mr Chicken have accused me of being both angry and hateful, two things i am most certainly not and nothing in my posts would indicate that...perhaps you should take more time to reflect before posting such comments in future? Here's a really good cricketing metaphor for you to mull...don't keep bowling bouncers if they keep getting hit for six! 😉 ???? - could you explain what you mean by that as it makes no sense at all to me?

https://bikebiz.com/mayors-streetspace-plan-could-see-cycling-increased-tenfold-post-lockdown/amp/ Snowy, your face has gone so red you've melted...! 😉

On my street, which is one that benefits from the LTNs most of the people I speak to are anti- them. Mr Chicken, on your first post you said you lived near Calton Avenue, do you hear that anti-sentiment from your neighbours too? I may not be far from you (if you are still there) so would be interesting to know if it is the same where you are. I do think the polls conducted that showed most residents were against them (and I know it may not be totally scientific) is far more indicative of local sentiment. The council knows this and this is why their consultations now do not have the ability to register any objection to things anymore - they aren't stupid and can't have any sort of referendum as they would lose (as they did on the first CPZ "vote").

Not convinced. Just take a walk through town after morning rush hour and you will see little capacity of the bike lanes being used yet all the capacity of the reduced road space being used. It's a commuter peak and that's it. Will Norman and the cycle lobby bigged up a tenfold increase in cycling that never materialised, they needed that to justify the investment and damage to other forms of transport but they have got nowhere near that and I hope some serious questions are being asked as to why.

Snowy, that reads like us depositioning some Aldred research - welcome to the "yeah but" club! 😉 Could it be, perhaps, that all the measures, including LTNs, new cycle infrastructure (especially across bridges) has had a detrimental impact on congestion in London? And should you not be heralding that as showing the measures are working because is the point of many of them not to make car travel so infuriating that people find some other way?

A carrot for those who live in them, less so for those outside them don't you think? Are we to presume you live in one of them? P.S. what is a fire bike?

Did they really say they had a mandate based on verbal feedback on door-knocking sessions - surely they weren't that stupid? Ha ha.. is that the new bar for council consultations - verbal feedback based on verbal feedback from councillors with a vested interest knocming on the doors of "weak Labour" voters....;-) In the words of Cllr Rose....thats definitely not a, stop mansplaining, referendum....! ;-)* *;-) added for the benefit of those who have had a sense of humour by-pass. Some words added for humorous purposes that weren't uttered by Cllr Rose...in tne same sentence.

Mr Chicken - have you ever been on this forum under another name? The way you argue, name call and try to negatively deposition anyone with a view opposite of yours yet never actually answer questions is very, very reminiscent of some of the multiple account posters of the past.... I don't know about anyone else but I am getting a big dose of deja vu with your postings.....maybe it is coincidence but my goodness me you seem to be following the same playbook as some of your banned pals

Attack but never answer....where have we seen this before, takes us back to the glory days of LTN Manatee.....? 😉

I have certainly seen police officers enforcing red light jumping cyclists in Central London in a targeted campaign. I have also seen a police motor cyclist pull over an infringing Lime bike red light jumper and pavement cycler on the city end of London Bridge.

Was this when they were targeting "weak Labour voters" they got from their database....?

No just emphasising the tongue-in-cheek nature of some of the content. Maybe if I had put one on the Chelsea Bridge comment you wouldn't have gone on your engineering lecture...;-)

Some of OD's supporters don't live in Dulwich but the majority do (you can see it on their map). I agree on the one issue manifesto but the biggest issue for the Tories and Lib Dems was they split the vote and if they had been smart one of them would have stood down and then the other might have got traction on the basis of LTNs. Labour's election machine (at all levels) learned some painful lessons in 2019 so are applying that sensibly. They are pretty much the only party now that can call on swathes of activists to go door knocking.

Mr Chicken, no I am not an engineer but thanks for clarifying my point that vibrating bridges have been a thing for a long time. Didn't the Millenium Bridge have the same issue? ;-) Its good to know that if anyone on the forum ever needs any engineering advice they can come to you - we can all sleep well at night now..;-) Does your expertise stretch beyond engineering? If so, perhaps you can help Snowy and take a stab at, keeping the thread on topic, answering my question about why you think London congestion increased by 5% post Covid and yet the next placed city in the top 10 most congested UK cities decreased by 9% and Belfast managed to reduce it by 36% in the Inrix report? P.S. I am not a cosplay fan but if you are its all good with me - each to their own and all that! ;-)

Perhaps some of the posters on this forum don't live in Dulwich/Southwark and didn't get the "A vote for Labour is a vote against the Tories" leaflets which made it anything but local issues.... They never mentioned LTNs in any of their materials. Why? Because they are politicians and they knew they could not raise the issue...it was swept quietly under the carpet. Anyone who thinks otherwise is politically niave. Why on earth would any politician raise any issue that might be a local hot potato, they aren't stupid.

Yeah, per First Mate, so proud of their achievements on LTNs Southwark Labour forgot to mention them at all in their manifesto....hmmmmm

I don't hate anyone and you accusing me of doing so is so typical and part of the armoury of name calling we have grown to expect from you. I disagree with many of their policies and the way they deal with constituents but I would never hate them. Reflects badly on you (and maybe politics in general nowadays) that that would be your go-to.

Mr Chicken, perhaps the councillors could reallocate some of that time they spend (on photo ops) with cops with speed guns to police some of bad cycling junctions. Often a visual deterrent is enough to influence behavioural change.