Rockets

Malumbu, only two people signed it and one of them wasn't me!

Heartblock - the discussion is in relation to the Imperial College research that Sadiq's office weren't happy with the conclusions of, key para pasted from the article below. The link is below but the full article is pasted a few posts above. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/08/19/khan-tried-silence-scientists-questioned-ulez-claims/

We did warn Megalaki that setting up a petition in support of the CPZs might backfire somewhat....

Err, you can find such posts telling anyone who will listen that EV is still a problem from our local councillors (not your local councillors obviously but those in Dulwich).... https://twitter.com/margynewens/status/1373608197429342209?t=d9DSmvyu_ButDcS7n2j8mA&s=19 Why is it a nonsense generalisation if it has been a prevalent narrative from those on the pro- side? Perhaps you are the one that is blinkered?

Electric vehicles are clearly part of the solution to the problem but it amazes me that the moment you mention them many in the pro-lobby will tell you about the particulates from tyre and brake wear which always makes me think "yeah, but there's no pollution from the exhaust pipe and if people need to use cars and pollution is your key objective why are you not embracing them as part of the solution". And then I realise the "problem" is because they are four wheels.....

Interesting article: BBC News - Ulez: The politics of pollution & the mayoralty https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66583068

Clearly he has got to the point where political survival and longevity usurps ideology...

It's almost cultish at times.....

And it appears some of their supporters have taken a leaf from their books and decided that if you don't like what you see or hear then just shout and shout and shout in the hope you get what you want.

Gotta love politics - it's never actually about what people want but what the party wants!!! Does anyone know whether Cllr McAsh has come back with the things he promised yet?

The behaviour of the councillors and council officers during that debacle was disgusting but probably not surprising...... Key quote about Will Norman having to intervene: In an internal email from TfL’s Walking and Cycling Commissioner Will Norman to Catherine Rose, Cabinet Member for Leisure, Parks, Streets and Clean Air, on July 22, he wrote: “I also heard that there was a meeting last night where two of the TfL team were subject to a lot of abuse and were left upset and in tears. This is obviously completely unacceptable if this is the case. Were you aware of this?” https://southwarknews.co.uk/area/southwark/tfl-staff-left-upset-and-in-tears-by-abusive-southwark-council-staff-in-meeting-about-dulwich-village-ltn/

I think you'll find the action's of Labour' HQ and a host of Labour front benchers would suggest this isn't just the Tories who are showing an interest in the problems he is creating. Of course this is political opportunism but one that has been delivered with a bow on it by Sadiq and is causing Labour HQ a huge headache. Because Labour made it solely about sticking it to Boris and nothing about local issues - Boris was the gift for the council. In fact, and I am not sure if you got these through your door, but Labour's local election flyers led with the headline something along the lines of "a vote for Labour is a vote against Boris". The British electorate love a good protest vote, especially in local elections, and Sadiq might be prompting one in the outer suburbs around the mayoral election.

Am I obliged to appease you by critiquing the article when what I was being critical of was the, ahem, "exclusive" nature of the piece? Re-read my post. If you follow the natural path from there you could probably work out that my criticism was because it was Peter's peers and pals from the cycle lobbyists who probably "exclusively" gave him the story and then gave him quotes for it to attack the government's plans to review their work, sorry the LTNs. The clue is my over-use of the word "exclusive". My goodness you're a cantankerous Mr Chicken aren't you?

You critique substance of an article not criticism.... And, again, if you had been paying attention on the forum over the years you will have seen I have rewritten many of Peter's headlines and threads for him. He even came on here to attack those who critique his work and when I made suggestions on how the article could/should have been written based on tne actual facts, instead of his pro-LTN spin, he never responded. Oh they most certainly are the same in their spin to appease their political audience and political parties - to suggest otherwise is ludicrous - one sits firmly on the right (appeasing Tories) one sits firmly on the left (appeasing lefties). And both are struggling massively so interpret that as you will. P.S. if you ever want to read some great stories on the banter between the left and right leaning media during Fleet Street's heydays I would recommend some of Roy Greenslade's books. Probably also worth a read of his book: Press Gang: How Newspapers Make Profits From Propaganda

Again, if you had been paying attention, you would know I have been very critical of Peter Walker's writing and reporting on this topic because his stories and headlines, how can we put it, seem to only tell one side of the story - the side of the story he is ideologically linked to. But I am sure you will soon be critiquing his work too given how you had such strong opinions on the Torygraph article I linked to because of its right wing leaning and links to the Tories. (I am sure you know the same is true for the Guardian with the left and Labour don't you? ;-))

Yes but the leafleting isn't about a local election its about the Mayoral election and the opposition trying to pull every lever to try and get Sadiq out of office. Sadiq has gift-wrapped them all something to attack him on (very much in the same way that Boris gift wrapped the council elections by giving Labour something to focus on that meant they didn't get dragged into a local issues debate/battle). I am still struggling to find the reference to installing borough-wide CPZs in their manifesto.....have you found it yet?

I don't need to because anyone, who has been paying attention over the last few years, would know that I have criticised the vandals, on both sides of the argument, plenty in the past. Not going to try to find something you haven't criticised because I feel no need to stoop to your level. And, to be honest, you seem to spend your whole time on here aggresively attacking anyone who dares to oppose your view of the world, so finding something that you don't criticise is probably going to be a bit of an effort - but maybe that's part of the modus operandi for a self-confessed (bikeless) member of the all powerful cycle lobby mafia illuminati. 😉

Another Peter Walker exclusive....exclusively quoting his cohorts and peers from the cycle lobby - I wonder who gave him the exclusive! 😉 https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/aug/20/review-of-low-traffic-neighbourhoods-risks-creating-rat-runs-say-campaigners

A swarm...how nice.... "We did win"...are you a Councillor? I know Southwark have had problems with councillors haranguing constituents by setting up anonymous social media accounts before (Cllr Pollack) so maybe you're another! 😉 Funny you posted the article from the Guardian as I saw some social threads saying how come the councils spend so much on repairing vandalised LTN infrastructure when other vandalised infrastructure (like in parks) stands unrepaired for years. Someone mentioned that the council are only spending money made by the LTNs to repair/update/refresh them with that money. Also love the Guardian submitted an FOI to get that info.....

As I was saying Ex- don't go all Mr Chicken (as Mr Chicken just went)....what a fantastic advert he is for the active travel lobby...."we are coming for your car etc"...in one post he highlights everything wrong with many in the active travel lobby and why people are, rightly, questioning how things have been allowed to get this far. From Anna Goodman tearing down posters to some of the overly angry posts on here it's clear the active travel lobby have some real problem elements who won't ever be able to have a balanced discussion...its very much their way of the highway...sorry I mean cycleway...;-) Indeed I am honoured, my work here is now done! 😉

We have seen this sort of behaviour from our councillors when organisations try to publish findings that go against the council narrative and really shows the challenges encountered when you pay for and commission research if the findings aren't completely endorsing the outcomes and conclusions you wanted from the research. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/08/19/khan-tried-silence-scientists-questioned-ulez-claims/ Khan tried to ‘silence’ scientists who questioned Ulez claims, emails show Correspondence shows deputy ‘really disappointed’ that Imperial College publicised findings questioning effectiveness of scheme By Sarah Knapton, SCIENCE EDITOR 19 August 2023 • 9:00pm Sadiq Khan is expanding the Ulez scheme to the whole of London Sadiq Khan’s office tried to discredit and “silence” scientists who found that his ultra-low emissions zone (Ulez) policy had little impact on pollution, The Telegraph can disclose. In private emails seen by The Telegraph, Shirley Rodrigues, the London Mayor’s deputy for environment and energy, told Prof Frank Kelly she was “really disappointed” that Imperial College had publicised findings questioning the effectiveness of Ulez. Prof Kelly, a director of Imperial’s Environmental Research Group, which has been paid more than £800,000 by Mr Khan’s office since 2021, agreed to issue a statement – partly written by Ms Rodrigues – saying Ulez had helped to “dramatically reduce air pollution”. Advertisement London Conservatives said the correspondence revealed an “alarmingly cosy relationship” between the Mayor’s office and the scientists it was funding, as well as a desire to “silence scientists who question the effectiveness of Khan’s policies”. Prof Kelly’s colleagues said they stood by their research “100 per cent”, but The Telegraph understands that the fallout has had a chilling effect, leaving them unwilling to publish further work on the subject. The study from the Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering, published in the journal Environmental Research Letters in 2021, found that the introduction of Ulez in 2019 cut nitrogen dioxide by less than three per cent and had insignificant effects on ozone and particulate matter. Peter Fortune, the Conservative London Assembly Member for Bexley and Bromley, two of the boroughs challenging the Ulez expansion, said: “It is unacceptable that Sadiq Khan and his deputy conspired to silence legitimate research because it would damage the Mayor’s reputation and credibility. “Sadiq Khan has claimed he is just following the science, yet he has been using scientific advisors to protect his own interests. Science relies on open, transparent debate.” Imperial’s Environmental Research Group has been paid at least £802,958 by Mr Khan’s office since 2021, including a payment of £45,958 for a report on the “future health benefits of mayoral air quality policies” which has been widely cited by the Mayor despite not being peer reviewed. Cllr Colin Smith, the leader of Bromley Council said: “When academics are paid for their research, it quite reasonably leads to questions being asked about the outcomes sought by those commissioning the work. “Indeed, as long ago as last autumn we directly challenged Imperial as to their methodology and the conclusions of some of their research ourselves, and the revelation of these emails now serves to seriously heighten those concerns.” Emails released under Freedom of Information requests show that Ms Rodrigues wrote to Prof Kelly on Nov 16 2021, complaining that Sky News, The Times and The Mail were running a “misleading” Ulez study that had been press released by Imperial College. Ms Rodrigues thanked Prof Kelly’s team for trying to stop Imperial’s press office from releasing the research and said that she was “deeply concerned” about the damage the study was doing to credibility of the Mayor’s office and Ulez. She added: “Is there anything you can do or advise to help us set the record straight? I would really appreciate any support.” Prof Kelly replied, saying he was “totally dismayed” and was “pursuing options internally to offset this”. He said he would be “very happy to provide the Greater London Authority with support required as you move to mitigate the damage”. Prof Kelly sent a statement to Ms Rodrigues to check, which initially said actions by the Mayor were “collectively providing a major benefit to the city”. She replied, crossing out the word “collectively” and adding that the Mayor’s schemes “have dramatically reduced air pollution in London”. Cllr Paul Osborn, the leader of Harrow Council, which is resisting the Ulez expansion, said: “These dodgy emails raise important questions about the scientific basis for extending the Ulez. I have long believed that this expansion will have a very limited impact on air pollution but comes at a massive cost to the poorest and most vulnerable motorists.” The emails also show that, on Feb 14 this year, the Greater London Authority (GLA) asked Prof Kelly to complain about a Telegraph article reporting on the uncertainty of air pollution death figures widely cited by Mr Khan, based on Prof Kelly’s research. The GLA offered to set up a “friendly interview” for him with “very supportive” David Lammy, the Labour MP for Tottenham. At the time, Prof Kelly warned that “Imperial’s press office is not keen for us to put a direct contradiction to the Telegraph article”, but said that “as always, I’m happy to fight back”. He also asked the Mayor’s office to provide him with “a form of words” with which he could challenge the article. Cllr Baroness O’Neill of Bexley added: “These findings confirm everything we knew, in that the data used to build the case for extending Ulez was flawed. Extending Ulez has always been more about the Mayor of London’s drive for income generation than improving air quality for Bexley residents.” On April 17 , Prof Kelly admitted on the Evening Standard’s The Leader podcast that his research, paid for by the Mayor, would give Mr Khan “useful ammunition” to promote his Ulez expansion. On June 6 , Prof Kelly wrote to Rishi Sunak, the Prime Minister, alleging that politicians were “not believing the science” on air pollution. Six of the signatories were part of the Imperial team, but they did not disclose that they were being funded by the Mayor’s office. A spokesman for Mr Khan said: “It is right – and standard practice across government – that we commission experts to carry out research to inform the work we do. “Frank Kelly and the Environmental Research Group at Imperial are some of the world-leading academic institutions looking at air quality. It is normal and proper to work with these experts to ensure our policies are as effective as possible at dealing with issues such as the high number of deaths – up to 4,000 a year – linked to toxic air in London every year. “The Ulez analysis from the engineering department at Imperial only paints a partial picture, not accounting for the full lifetime impact of the scheme and only focusing on its immediate impact around its launch. It is commonplace for academic experts to disagree with how other academic studies are interpreted, as was the case here.” The Telegraph has approached Imperial College for comment. © Telegraph Media Group Limited 2023

Political downfalls are always predicated by lying, deceit and taking the electorate for idiots....its just then a case of whether you can convince enough of the idiots to vote for you! 😉 Ex- you're starting to go all Mr Chicken on us, please don't!

Because when the argument is so biased, blinkered, sensationally engorged and so ludicrously skewed to help justify the council's agenda as those infographics are they deserve ridicule and calling out for what they are.....

Ha ha...the clip art vibe is so strong in this one! I can't wait for the too many bike lanes can cause problems for all road users version too! Or the one on floating bus stops causing problems for all road users too. Or shared cycle and pedestrian space.. And so the list goes on....

The reference I can find says: We will encourage people to switch to less polluting cars with lower parking fees for zero emissions and smaller vehicles across the whole borough. The phrasing of that suggests lowering existing parking fees and If that is supposed to be where we are supposed to have deciphered that CPZs are coming then wow......the deception intent is very real and it is laughable that people are defending that. When challenged it is interesting the council has not pointed to the manifesto but some research they did years ago to claim they have a mandate for CPZs - they know they are on dodgy groumd. That should speak volumes and this is exactly the lack of robustness that the judge in the ULEZ case was very critical of. Whilst they try to hide their intent the Tories have been dropping leaflets through Dulwich doors trying to focus people's attention onto it and create an Achilles Heal for Labour under the title "Our council needs to respect residents" and I very much expect to see something similar from the Lib Dems.