Rockets

Where are we heading to!? Somewhere nice I hope...I hope it has bike parking so I can cycle there! 😉

@exdulwicher You accept though that councils have the power to set speeds limits within parks don't you and that they would do this by specfic orders relevant to the park? And you accept that Dulwich Park has set that speed limit to 5mph within Dulwich Park and have clearly signposted it? And do you accept that if the said order calls out ALL vehicles having to adhere to that speed that bikes would also need to adhere? Many of your cohort would say that if the rules that are set by the order have been broken then it's a fair cop. But if it is the speed limit and you can't keep within it it's a moot point isn't it? Isn't that like someone saying their car is difficult to keep under 20mph? And this is the issue - mixing uses in a confined space creates challenges especially if some are travelling at much greater speed than others. Lime bikes are an issue and so are cargo bikes in Dulwich Park and a number of dog walkers who saw the angry cyclist vs dog incident said that there have been a number of cyclist vs dog accidents in the park.

But under the UN's 1969 Vienna Convention on Road Traffic bicycles are defined as vehicles so thus are bound by the 5mph speed limit in Dulwich Park are they not? It is a private road with speed limit set by the council.

The speed limit doesn't apply to joggers as they are not a vehicle.....;-)

I wonder what bye-law they are leaning in to for issuing the PCNs and why the GLC initiated it? I doubt Southwark would go after cyclists in the way Wandsworth do - as I said they tried to issue one to me on my bike many years ago and I can't imagine Southwark driving a speed monitoring van with a speed camera in the back into the park to issue PCNs (as Wandsworth have)....although let's be honest the gusto with which Southwark issue PCNs to car drivers if that ever dries up they'll probably come for the cyclists! If they enforced the 5mph speed limit in Dulwich Park though there would be rich pickings given the majority of cyclists are doing far faster than that. Maybe something has to be done that goes beyond the stencilled message to cyclists at the entrances to Dulwich Park to watch their speed as at times it feels very dangerous - does anyone know who the man is who flies around the park doing fast laps on that half recumbent bike?

Even on private land like within a park, do local councils not have the power to set the speed limit within parks? Southwark's website says the 5mph speed limit in Dulwick Park applies to ALL vehicles and there is 5mph signage throughout both the car accessible and non-car accessible parts. Also, and very interestingly, the weird policing by Wandsworth parks police of 12mph, which seemed like a rather odd and random speed to be enforcing, is, apparently, because there are some long forgotten bye-laws about cycle speeds from the GLC days that still apply across London which means they can issue PCNs and the speed limit in the park does very much apply to bikes which they are invoking due to problems caused by cyclists in the park. https://road.cc/content/news/speed-gun-deployed-wandsworth-parks-317353

The dogs on lead signs are on the inner section of the park - around the lake etc.

Cyclists should be observing the 5mph speed limit but most do not - some of those cargo bike boneshaker contraptions laden with small children can be witnessed flying through the park at breakneck speeds heading from Court Lane to the Dulwich Village entrance and vice versa.

Which has, unfortunately, closed. Au Ciel is much better than Gail's. Big bakery in the parade of shops near Rocca in Dulwich Village with all the seats outside - you can't miss it. Normally a big queue outside at weekends with walkers and cyclists topping up on carbs and coffee!

@march46 the incident happened in an area where dog walkers dont have to keep dogs on a short lead. And the cyclist in question was doing way more than the 5pm speed limit and was in the wrong - and everyone around him told him so. He seemed suitably chastised as he sped off at speed, clearly not learning his lesson.

On this one I am a bit torn to be honest as, many years ago, the same Parks Police tried to issue a PCN to me for cycling on the path close to the river in Battersea Park. On the other hand there is clearly an issue with cyclists breaking the park speed limit and if I look at Dulwich Park very few cyclists adhere to the 5pm speed limit set in it and I can see why there may be tension between dog walkers and fast moving cyclists - last week I saw a full kit wally on his £6k bike get angry with a dog walker and he had to brake sharply to avoid their dog - he was cycling way too fast for the park and got little sympathy from the other people on foot around him. I presume those who say that if any car driver falls foul of rules and gets a PCN then they take the same approach to these cyclists - if you are travelling faster than the park speed limit you cannot complain if you get a PCN?

I don't live in his ward and he will only engage with those that do.

@Earl Aelfheah the fear of crime in the Calton area is not being catalysed by me but by kids on e-bikes mugging people for their mobile phones. I am not going to revisit the argument we had earlier in the year but theft from person has risen massively and was heading for the worst year on record the last time I checked. But I really cant be bothered revisting it as it is a futile exercise. Those of us who live in the affected area hear and see what is happening and don't need others to tell us we are imagining it. The local PCSO team have said there is a correlation between certain types of crime increasing and the LTNs so I will take their expert opinion over anyone else's.

@Earl Aelfheah given you have a channel open with him might you ask him about the latest on the CPZ and then you might be able to answer the question about it for the forum?

Not according to police data. Just trying to help @Administrator ensure posters follow the rules, especially when it comes to challenging others on their mental health. @Earl Aelfheah even you can surely admit that the use of "unhinged" is a barbed reference to mental health?

Well done @Earl Aelfheah. It took a while but I am glad you self-policed, the forum rules are very clear that you cannot post that type of comment. Let's see if @Dogkennelhillbilly does the same. Has anyone seen or heard from Cllr McAsh in a local capacity since he won and lost the council leadership election? I see Charlie Smith seems to be doing the SE22 councillor page now. Might the CPZ consultation have been put on hold with council elections approaching next year?

To be fair @Earl Aelfheah it is your obsession with defending anything and everything to do with LTNs or active travel that massively clouds your judgement and blinkers what you see and read. Certain types of crime around the LTN have increased massively since the LTN went in, at far higher rates than other parts of Dulwich or London. The data is there from the police to show it but, perhaps most importantly, for those who live within the LTN area we all can see what is happening and has happened. Those who do not live in the area seem very keen to tell us what is happening in our backyard.

Some foxes are very tame. The foxes that live near the electricity sub-station thing on the corner of Calton and Woodwarde will happily walk up to you/passed you. They are some of the best looking foxes around so clearly being well-fed - glorious coats and bushy tails but interested in humans and keen to engage/be fed rather than being scared.

@DulvilleRes the only, massive, flaw in your argument is that crimes like theft from person HAVE been increasing in the LTN area and we’re at their highest ever (I have not checked recently but will now). Local street What’s App groups are always reporting more cases to warn local residents. One of the local schools put a notice to all parents of children at the school saying thieves had been active in the area that morning and to be on high alert. PSCOs were going door to door to offer advice on how not to become a victim (of many types of crime) and said that certain types of crime were increasing as a result of the LTNs. If you don’t think there is an issue then so be it but there is. It’s not scaremongering. Ask anyone who lives within the LTNs. Perhaps you are removed from it but some aren’t. If you are referring to the Dulwich Society Transport sub-committee chair their name was perfectly good for the Dulwich Society to publish in public minutes of meetings and for her to publicise the award they received as London Cycling Campaign’s Active Travel Campaigner of the Year on their own twitter feed and for LCC to publicise it on their website. I think the issue you have is that I pointed out those two publically published and available facts and you don’t like the link that has been made; that the Dulwich Society’s (somewhat controversial) transport sub-committee chair was a LCC decorated Active Travel Campaigner of the year.

"Unhinged"...oops, another falling foul of the forum rules perhaps?

Yes they are very clear and the fact @Earl Aelfheah still hasn't done anything to self-police the post and decided to double-down instead speaks volumes.

Again, why does @DulvilleRes think this is a laughing matter. It's not. It's serious. People are being, often violently, robbed for their phones in the area. It is not something anyone should be joking about or using in some childish finger-pointing exercise against another poster. If anyone subscribes to the local Met Engage update they will know how high this is on local residents' list of problems and the steps the Met are taking, and advising people on, to try and counter it. One can only presume that @DulvilleRes has never been a victim of a phone snatch style crime as if they had one suspects they would not be joking about it. It causes real trauma to the victims and many are local school children. So no laughing matter. @DulvilleRes I can actually tell you the names of the two PCSOs who knocked on our door as they are part of the PCSO Village ward team....

It's panto season @Earl Aelfheah so "oh yes there is, crimes like theft from person are on the rise!" Ask anyone who lives in the area and they will tell you. Alleyns recently had to put a note out to warn parents about the risks posed by phone thieves on bikes targeting the area. The Calton Avenue area seems to be a mobile phone theft hotspot.

Forum Rules at the bottom of this page. Point 2: Post with respect towards others at all times. The following will not be tolerated: Using insults or profanity directed at another forum member. Trolling, i.e. intentionally instigating controversial arguments with the sole purpose of provoking reactions or winding up other forum members. Questioning other forum members sanity or mental health.

Reassuring to see some think the increase in crime around the Dulwich Square area is a joking matter....