Rockets

Yes they are very clear and the fact @Earl Aelfheah still hasn't done anything to self-police the post and decided to double-down instead speaks volumes.

Again, why does @DulvilleRes think this is a laughing matter. It's not. It's serious. People are being, often violently, robbed for their phones in the area. It is not something anyone should be joking about or using in some childish finger-pointing exercise against another poster. If anyone subscribes to the local Met Engage update they will know how high this is on local residents' list of problems and the steps the Met are taking, and advising people on, to try and counter it. One can only presume that @DulvilleRes has never been a victim of a phone snatch style crime as if they had one suspects they would not be joking about it. It causes real trauma to the victims and many are local school children. So no laughing matter. @DulvilleRes I can actually tell you the names of the two PCSOs who knocked on our door as they are part of the PCSO Village ward team....

It's panto season @Earl Aelfheah so "oh yes there is, crimes like theft from person are on the rise!" Ask anyone who lives in the area and they will tell you. Alleyns recently had to put a note out to warn parents about the risks posed by phone thieves on bikes targeting the area. The Calton Avenue area seems to be a mobile phone theft hotspot.

Forum Rules at the bottom of this page. Point 2: Post with respect towards others at all times. The following will not be tolerated: Using insults or profanity directed at another forum member. Trolling, i.e. intentionally instigating controversial arguments with the sole purpose of provoking reactions or winding up other forum members. Questioning other forum members sanity or mental health.

Reassuring to see some think the increase in crime around the Dulwich Square area is a joking matter....

Yes it is. If you are having a heated discussion with someone asking them if they are ok in that manner is questioning whether they are thinking straight, it's an incredibly passive aggressive line of questioning designed to imply someone is having some sort of mental health crisis. It was during the time when there were some quite unpleasant individual/s like Mr Chicken/LTN Manatee/LTNBooHoo and things started to get out of hand and some posters questioned the mental state of others. Admin made it perfectly clear that questioning another poster's mental state would not be tolerated on the forum.

#seenoevil? 😉

Is that not what people are trying to ascertain and was the whole point of the OP's post?

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/bus-speeds-london-slow-9mph-tfl-sadiq-khan-assembly-b1261821.html

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/wandsworth-council-speeding-fines-cyclists-tooting-bec-common-b1262735.html

Who said increases in cycling could not happen? The alternative narrative of course is that TFL and the Mayor are getting now were near the ten-fold increase in cycling they had modelled post-Covid and that in the report where they herald a 43% increase in cycle stages (by the way does anyone know why TFL used to measure cycle journeys but now measures cycle stages?) which is good but nowhere the ten-fold increase they mooted -it'snot even half of one-fold. In the very same report where they herald the 43% increase in cycle stages TFL also highlights a continuing slowing of bus speeds in the capital and that they are getting nowhere near the walking targets they set for themselves. As a result of that the London Assembly called two meetings to try to understand why buses are getting slower and why TFL are missing their walking targets and the experts in both said things that some people are ideologically opposed to and will try desperately not to agree with or acknowledge. The London Assembly have called TFL to address them in the New Year and what they say will be very interesting. And yes, I do too but it's not as good news if it has come at the expense of other, sometimes more healthy, sustainable and space efficient ways of moving people around the capital or is impacting another form of critical travel in a negative way and this is what the London Assembly will no doubt continue to explore. Transport in London does not revolve, as some people like to suggest or think, around just cycling - the approach to transport has to be balanced and pragmatic and there are many who continue to think that the Mayor and TFL have over-indexed on cycling and that there are lot of negatives associated with the way many have adopted a "cycle-first" strategy and that the growth in cycle sectors is being propped up by e-bikes (that can be, at times, a nuisance and a danger to other road/pavement users and riders themselves) doing perfectly walkable sectors and delivery riders (that can be, at times, a nuisance and a danger to other road/pavement users and riders themselves) . What I think is happening now is that the impact of the post-Covid transport policies is starting to be seen in the data and this will shine a light on whether those policies were balanced and pragmatic in the first place. No amount of fluffy PR heralding the often myopic "everything is awesome" narrative will hide what has actually been going on and the long-term impacts.

No that was the exec from the bus company. The union member who represents bus drivers said in response to the question below (I found a clever AI tool to transcribe it - timestamps included!!!):: Um so so TfL have um made an assessment. They they've stated that uh the bus speeds have been impacted because of Show less 01:02:54 congestion, emergency incidents, demonstrations and mechanical performances of the bus fleet. Um is there anybody here who agrees with that assessment? Um and are there any other issues that TfL have not identified? Yeah, >> I think when I when I look at there's some of the reasons, but a lot of this has been own goals. So when we look at um like you're looking for space for pedestrians, so we've narrowed roads, cyclists. Yeah. Once again, we've narrowed it, you know, and quite often Show less 01:03:31 if you're behind a push bike, you can't overtake it as a bus driver because there just isn't enough room, you know, so you're stuck now at that speed all the way until that cyclist moves. Um so yeah uh it is I think there's quite a lot that needs to be looked at when we we you know because you've got >> prime example is when they've made a lot of these places pedestrian >> personal let's imagine Oxford Street when that if that actually happens where's all that traffic go Show less 01:04:05 >> park lane park lane's never going to move >> you know and these are the things that aren't being thought about which are the knock on events from doing all of this. >> You know, I'm fully behind everyone being safe. But if that means by doing that that actually the service that you're trying to run on other things are now impacted, that's a concern, isn't it? Because eventually you're going to say like they did in the old days, there's too many Show less 01:04:36 buses in London. And here is what the Travel Watch person said (where he address congestion): decline in bus speeds we've obviously heard a little bit from other panelists but from travel watches his perspective what's what's gone wrong if you like. >> Uh thank you. I think it's all all of the things that were mentioned previously not not not just by assembly member Prakari but also from the from the panel members. Um the one bit of gloss I would I I would add uh to all of that is that I think the first thing that was listed was congestion. Um it kind of begs the question what's causing Show less 01:10:37 the congestion. you know that could be increased road traffic um but actually road traffic by and large hasn't been increasing um or it could be something to do with the road space that's available for any given level of traffic which I think takes you into the points that we made made very well which is about you know the incident of road works um having an impact on congestion um and that's important certainly from the point of view of of TfL's response to addressing bus speeds because they Show less 01:11:07 place a lot of emphasis this upon interventions which I'm sure we'll talk about later which are designed to um reduce the impact of of um road works. But it also begs a question about um uh the point that's been made previously about uh space that might previously been available, road space that might have been available for buses not being there um uh now. Um I mean I have struggled to find some good data uh to uh paint a picture as to what has happened in terms of the the number of Show less 01:11:40 bus lane kilometers uh the number of cycle lane uh lanes segregated cycle lanes over this period of time. Um but uh I have some sympathy with the views that have been expressed by my my fellow panelists that there is that there does seem to be something that's been going on with regard to the reallocation of road space which I think is contributing to this factor. I saw a there was a piece from a couple of years ago in the in the in the Times newspaper uh which sought to try and understand what has been going on and it had Show less 01:12:08 identified there are at least 20 roads in the capital uh for example which is a high street just to pick an example so an example in west London um where the bus lane has been removed and and in its place a cycle route has been been put in place um is that having a major impact Londonwide I just don't No, but logic would suggest it's got to be having an impact at least at a local level. And I was intrigued to read the comments reported um very recently last few days from um the former transport Show less commissioner was then Sir Peter now Lord Hendy admitting, "Yeah, I took a lot of road space out that formerly used to be for buses for cycle lanes. I almost certainly uh introduced some cycle lanes which were badly designed and have had an impact on bus speeds." Don't misunderstand me. That's not a reason for not implementing cycle lanes to promote cycling which has many many benefits but it's about how these things are done and making sure they're done better. Just to re go back to my point Show less 01:13:09 about traffic levels are they part of the equation. If you look at the stats, average bus speeds have been in London across London have been declining had had been had declined noticeably in the early part of the last decade and they sort of flatlined with the brief exception of COVID. They flatlined and they've been flatlined. So they they were near or even in the more distant past over 10 miles an hour on average. They are now 9.2 two miles an hour and if anything over the last three years so postcoid they've been getting Show less 01:13:43 marginally worse. Um if you look at what's been happening with car traffic for example in London inner central uh um central inner and outer um broadly speaking it has been gently coming down again with one or two exceptions um and is now currently at a it is lower than the prepandemic level. So simply the volume of carrot by itself doesn't seem to on the face of it explain what's going on with bus speeds which is why I think you need to look at what else is going on in terms of the allocation of Show less 01:14:20 road space capacity and also the management of that road space capacity whether it's road works or things like signals which I'm sure we'll come on to later

@Earl Aelfheah I really don't know as I am not a travel expert (and I am presuming you aren't either) and no, I am not advocating for the removal of cycle lanes. That is up to the experts to determine but what we do know is that these panelists were called due to their expertise. 9 And it is interesting to read what they actually said (BTW does anyone know a good way to transcribe a YouTube video with AI maybe as I think it would be interesting for people to see what they actually said). So... Yes and what was said by the man from the bus company was that the two "big ones" were roadworks (number and nature) and "problems with road space for buses". The exact words form that section from the attendee from the bus company is as follows (he doesn't mention car size BTW!): "There are more challenges now with road space for buses - there are a lot of competing demands for roadspace. Tfl has to make lots of decisions that are very difficult and I will say that and I have a particular view and it is difficult for TFL to allocate road space for all of the competing priorities but there is no doubt having said that there is more of a challenge for the bus network as it is less well protected, there is less capacity, whether it is cycle lanes, some of the LTNs, 20mph or some of the urban realm projects. There are lots and lots of things that within themselves are good and worthy to be doing, I am not saying they are not, but are they having an impact on the bus network? Yes they are." "So that the capacity of the network is less than it was. So in very simple terms when a problem happens, you know it is a breakdown or roadworks or whatever it is, an accident, it will tends to have a bigger impact than it used to over a wider area for longer because the capacity isn't in the network to recover from that problem in the way that it was in the past." So he puts the reduction in capacity in road space for buses to "cycle lanes, some of the LTNs, 20mph and urban realm projects". It will be interesting to see how TFL reacts.

This is the go-to position. But remember the culture war has nothing to do with this sort of behaviour.....the culture war is only being waged by those who are anti-cycling!

There is only one expert from Travel Watch on the panel and I love how you now question whether they are experts or not.....! (One wonders if that might be because they are saying things you are opposed to - it's a bit predictable). Travel Watch compiled a list of recommendations in 2024 and yes, of course, many of the suggestions make perfect sense. But we are talking about their expert opinion during the panel - they did not mention any of the points raised in the report they published in 2024 because the expert panel was about what was slowing buses down not how to speed them up. I am sure that discussion will come later - then I am sure the report you reference will be revisited and scrutinised accordingly whether it is still their best advice.

No @malumbu. That was the expert opinion of a bus union representative called to give his expert opinion on the continuing worsening of bus journey speeds by the London Assembly. What you mean to say it is reporting of expert opinion you don't agree with or like.

@Sue admin had to put more stringent rules in place because things were getting out of hand - not sure if you remember that but they were clear on what was considered acceptable, especially when it came to issues of questioning mental health of other posters.

Yeah I am not sure why @DulvilleRes has played this hand - it seems a little odd. Why? 1. People, quite rightly, flagged that the carbon footprint of paving slabs shipped from India seems at odds with an active travel intervention aiming to reduce pollution. 2. Someone posted that Dulwich Square was hazardous to cyclists as many cyclists had been falling on a potentially slippery surface. 3. Some tried to suggest this was due to bad conditions everywhere and deflect from the potential issue within the Square. Someone even tried to insinuate it was a false post due to a user name that looks like a Twitter troll. 4. Other users (probably with less suspicious user names - in some people's minds) backed up the comments and thanked those local residents who helped other cyclists avoid the same pitfalls. 5. I was trying to understand which part of the Square was slippery as the pedestrian crossing slabs have a much smoother top surface and often look very damp with water sitting on top of them and I can imagine that if it is icy and your front wheel hits that you will lose grip. No-one was able to confirm which part was problematic. 6. @malumbu deemed the slippery surface worthy of joking about. One presumes they were not one of those who fell or got hurt. The joke seemed poorly timed. Now @DulvilleRes you seem to be suggesting the slipperiness of the sandstone used on the Square was a consideration during the selection process. Do you have inside knowledge? Most of us are concerned there might be a problem that is putting cyclists at risk in certain conditions. You seem much less concerned about that and seem more concerned to suggest that this concern is an attempt to attack the council.

What question are you actually trying to get an answer to?

In the context of how you used it, it was clearly meant to be derogatory. You were questioning their mental state were you not? @Administrator has been very clear in the past that such posts are not permitted as a few have ventured down this distateful path before. It would probably be wise to remove it.

I thought this type of language wasn't allowed anymore?

Ha ha - @Earl Aelfheah let me answer the straight question I posed to you: yes, that UoW report did conclude that lower car-use within LTNs that they surveyed was not down to the LTNs! Maybe I am not the one being slippery here! 😉

What it means is that some people are calling for a more pragmatic and balanced approach to London-wide traffic matters. I have made my views very clear on this and, if was not clear before, my personal opinion is that TFL and the Mayor's office have over-indexed on cycling to the neglect of other transport modes in the capital. That after all the hubris to proclaim what a success their transport policies have been that actually the data is starting to show that there are problems. In the last few weeks the London Assembly has called expert witnesses to discuss two key topics: why is TFL missing their walking targets and why are buses running slower than ever before - both concerns which were in a report that TFL and the Mayor's office heralded the 43% increase in cycle sectors since 2019 - which was the main headline of the press releases sent to publicise it.

Do you agree that the last version of the study did conclude that: If you're having trouble finding it you will find it under Summary Discussion within the report. This is the problem when organisations like TFL fund these types of reports - sometimes the research will throw up results you aren't interested in because it doesn't suit the narrative you are trying to land by funding the research in the first place.

@Earl Aelfheah you are sharing a Travel Watch report from November 2024 and linking it a meeting in December 25 the London Assembly called to discuss the continuing downward trends of bus speeds in the report you highlighted the 43% cycle sector growth in published in November 25. The way you have worded the above suggests that Travel Watch submitted that report in response to the meeting the London Assembly called recently. They did not. I am sure they stand by what they said in that report but they did not cite it in relation to the items being discussed during the recent meeting. I think you are conflating the two things and creating a misleading impression. All I think a lot of people are calling for is a more pragmatic approach to London-wide traffic issues - that you have to be careful to balance all modes as there is no point robbing Peter to pay Paul. Perfect timing. Is that the pragmatic approach?