Rockets

Imagine the economic impact in a densely populated area.... Yes and every mile at 20mph rather than 30mph takes one minute longer.......makes you think.... Well that's the defense the cyclist who killed the lady in Regent's Park offered during the hearing.... And for once we agree!

How come then that the Welsh government’s own impact assessment/research suggested that the blanket 20mph across Wales would cost the Welsh economy £4.5bn over 30 years…..? Has anyone done a similar piece of research for London? I think you are confused as I have been calling for bicycles to adhere to the rules of the road and the fact that it is ludicrous that the speed limits do not apply to cyclists and when a cyclist killed a pedestrian whilst he was doing around 28mph he faced no legal recourse by claiming the speed limit did not apply to him.

@snowy maybe go back and re-read what I posted…..you have conveniently ignored what happened in 2021….why might that be? I am sure you believe you are an excellent driver @malumbu but only if everyone drives that will does a reduction to 20mph has a positive impact on pollution levels (according to TFL and Imperial College). A lot of people do not so what does that do to claims made by Southwark that 20mph reduces pollution? Probably renders if meaningless….. One backed up by data that shows that is indeed the case…it doesn’t take a genius to work out why. Only few posts back you were claiming I was questioning your “expertise” because you said the police set the speed limit and I challenged you that they did not. I am glad you have acknowledged that your expertise didn’t quite extend to that fact and that it is the local traffic authority (TFL and Southwark where we live) sets the speed. And you fail to address the point that by the definition within the Highway Code it is a 20mph road and it is one of London’s key arterial routes that was developed as such. There are many ruins where it is more than one lane in each direction. According to the Highway Code 30mph is an appropriate speed limit. Let’s back up a bit @Earl Aelfheah as you are doing your usual trick of putting words into people’s mouths again. Please try to get your facts right, I am, saying that a more pragmatic approach is needed rather than a blanket 20mph…..which no more than a few posts back you also seemed to agree with…. Hang on, no more than few posts ago @Sue was claiming 30mph is 50% faster than 20mph….yet you claim it has no discernible difference to journey times. Which one is it?

Well @Sue I answered the first part addressing the "more people will walk and cycle if the speed limit is 20 mph" in my previous messages. TFL has actually addressed the claim around pollution by saying there is no difference in No2 pollution at 20mph but that if cars are driven in a "smoother" way at 20mph there may be a reduction in particulate matter. I think we all see cars being driven less smoothly as they accelerate and brake between speed cameras. Collisions, yes of course reducing speeds reduces the risk of accidents but most accidents happen at junctions and the A205, in the main, has junctions controlled by traffic lights. This is why that statement by Southwark is so flawed, much of what they claim does not pass the scrutiny test, it is a collection of ideological soundbites they know they can throw out and their supporters will throw around as fact. On this thread alone there have been two very clear examples of people making claims that are just nonsense (claims that police set the speed limit in the area and claims that 30mph on the Westway was because of ageing infrastructure). And this is the point, a pragmatic approach would say roads like the A205 should remain 30 mph, but the pragmatic approach is not the one taken. I ask you again, do you consider 30mph on a A-road like the A205 to be too fast or as you refer "speeding".

Because often those measures are not brought in pragmatically. The A205 being 20mph is one of those, the Westway elevated section being 30mph is another. I very often cycle to West London and I would never want to cycle along the A4 no matter what speed it was - that's me being pragmatic. I often see people trying to and I often think that is being driven by ideology or stupidity - or a dangerous combination of both! I have been doing that journey far longer than the 20mph blanket measures were brought in and the route I chose to go those measures have made zero difference because the route I use is wonderfully quiet and always has been. Do you really think the A205 should be 20mph? It's one of London's most important arterial routes and is the very definition of a 30mph road in the Highway Code. Surely you can put your ideology aside and use your traffic management expertise to acknowledge that?

Do you consider 30mph to be the definition of a speeding car? As I was saying....ideological claptrap. The blanket rollout of 20mph by councils like Southwark was driven by an anti-car ideology and was not at all pragmatic. I think some in the active travel lobby would refer to it as a "nudge technique"...

Err @Sue how on earth does reducing speeds to 20mph encourage more cycling and walking exactly...do vars drivers suddenly say...oh, I can only go 20mph perhaps I will walk instead....ideological claptrap...

@snowy have we touched a raw nerve..you've gone very defensive...?;-) Maybe you are not aware but TFL started rolling-out 20mph on London roads in....2020..... Absolute nonsense. The 30mph was applied in 2020 as a temporary order whilst joints were replaced and then once the work was completed TFL made it permanent under their "Lowering Speeds Programme" in 2021 to "reduce road dnager". Are there any exceptions in, says Lambeth or Southwark...? Seemingly not....and the justification from Southwark for the blanket 20mph reads like it is far more ideological than pragmatic....would you not agree? Southwark believes that a borough wide 20mph speed limit is the most cost effective method to reduce collisions, encourage more sustainable forms of travel such as walking and cycling and help improve air quality.

And this is the point - by not taking a pragmatic approach those rolling out these plans tend to highlight themselves as being driven by ideology rather than common-sense - the A205 and many similar A-roads under TFL's stewardship are perfect examples, the A40 elevated section another and the whole of Wales was another.....and all it goes to do is turn people against all of the measures and people then look on them all ideologically rather than pragmatically!!! ;-).

@malumbu the south circular is the very definition of an urban road and it has street lights so, by the Highway Code, that is a 30mph road. It's only in Wales and parts of London that it is a 20mph road and that's because the local traffic authority (TFL and Southwark council), not the police, decided to set the speed limit as thus. Some would suggest that these decisions were driven by political, ideological and revenue-generation reasons. Absolutely. But often those doing things for ideological reasons leave pragmatism behind....;-)

I agree the folks at Finches are lovely and this is such a blow to them I really hope they can recover.

@malumbu do you consider yourself as one of the "many of you" - you're a driver as well aren't you - with, by your own admission, quite a rap-sheet of driving misdemeanours ? You rally against a culture war but you use the language of someone trying to catalyse one.

Fire and police have closed Gallery Road near the junction with Burbage as there is a lot of water due to another burst main this morning.

The point is I asked who sets the speed limits and you said the police and I challenged you on that and then you suggested I was questioning your "expertise" by asking that question. But, in fact, it is the local traffic authority who sets the speed limit and not the police. So I was right to ask the question wasn't I because what you were saying was wrong?

Well, who said I was questioning your expertise? But are you sure, the very same Google search will tell you it is local traffic authorities that set the speed limit. Who are the local traffic authorities in Southwark; TFL for major roads; Southwark council for local roads. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/setting-local-speed-limits/setting-local-speed-limits