Rockets

There is a 5mph limit on the outer perimeter of the park. The outer perimeter is designated a shared use route and as such Southwark have set the speed limit for all vehicles at 5mph on it. It is the same as in Tooting Bec, that has a shared use route with the speed limit set at 12mph - which is where the council were issuing PCNs to cyclists. Whether Southwark would ever police the 5mph limit is another question. Dogs can be off the lead on the outer perimeter and are called out as part of the shared use group. They only have to be on the lead within the inner sections of the park. I suspect this is one of the reasons the speed limit is set at 5mph by the council.

Where are we heading to!? Somewhere nice I hope...I hope it has bike parking so I can cycle there! 😉

@exdulwicher You accept though that councils have the power to set speeds limits within parks don't you and that they would do this by specfic orders relevant to the park? And you accept that Dulwich Park has set that speed limit to 5mph within Dulwich Park and have clearly signposted it? And do you accept that if the said order calls out ALL vehicles having to adhere to that speed that bikes would also need to adhere? Many of your cohort would say that if the rules that are set by the order have been broken then it's a fair cop. But if it is the speed limit and you can't keep within it it's a moot point isn't it? Isn't that like someone saying their car is difficult to keep under 20mph? And this is the issue - mixing uses in a confined space creates challenges especially if some are travelling at much greater speed than others. Lime bikes are an issue and so are cargo bikes in Dulwich Park and a number of dog walkers who saw the angry cyclist vs dog incident said that there have been a number of cyclist vs dog accidents in the park.

But under the UN's 1969 Vienna Convention on Road Traffic bicycles are defined as vehicles so thus are bound by the 5mph speed limit in Dulwich Park are they not? It is a private road with speed limit set by the council.

The speed limit doesn't apply to joggers as they are not a vehicle.....;-)

I wonder what bye-law they are leaning in to for issuing the PCNs and why the GLC initiated it? I doubt Southwark would go after cyclists in the way Wandsworth do - as I said they tried to issue one to me on my bike many years ago and I can't imagine Southwark driving a speed monitoring van with a speed camera in the back into the park to issue PCNs (as Wandsworth have)....although let's be honest the gusto with which Southwark issue PCNs to car drivers if that ever dries up they'll probably come for the cyclists! If they enforced the 5mph speed limit in Dulwich Park though there would be rich pickings given the majority of cyclists are doing far faster than that. Maybe something has to be done that goes beyond the stencilled message to cyclists at the entrances to Dulwich Park to watch their speed as at times it feels very dangerous - does anyone know who the man is who flies around the park doing fast laps on that half recumbent bike?

Even on private land like within a park, do local councils not have the power to set the speed limit within parks? Southwark's website says the 5mph speed limit in Dulwick Park applies to ALL vehicles and there is 5mph signage throughout both the car accessible and non-car accessible parts. Also, and very interestingly, the weird policing by Wandsworth parks police of 12mph, which seemed like a rather odd and random speed to be enforcing, is, apparently, because there are some long forgotten bye-laws about cycle speeds from the GLC days that still apply across London which means they can issue PCNs and the speed limit in the park does very much apply to bikes which they are invoking due to problems caused by cyclists in the park. https://road.cc/content/news/speed-gun-deployed-wandsworth-parks-317353

The dogs on lead signs are on the inner section of the park - around the lake etc.

Cyclists should be observing the 5mph speed limit but most do not - some of those cargo bike boneshaker contraptions laden with small children can be witnessed flying through the park at breakneck speeds heading from Court Lane to the Dulwich Village entrance and vice versa.

Which has, unfortunately, closed. Au Ciel is much better than Gail's. Big bakery in the parade of shops near Rocca in Dulwich Village with all the seats outside - you can't miss it. Normally a big queue outside at weekends with walkers and cyclists topping up on carbs and coffee!

@march46 the incident happened in an area where dog walkers dont have to keep dogs on a short lead. And the cyclist in question was doing way more than the 5pm speed limit and was in the wrong - and everyone around him told him so. He seemed suitably chastised as he sped off at speed, clearly not learning his lesson.

On this one I am a bit torn to be honest as, many years ago, the same Parks Police tried to issue a PCN to me for cycling on the path close to the river in Battersea Park. On the other hand there is clearly an issue with cyclists breaking the park speed limit and if I look at Dulwich Park very few cyclists adhere to the 5pm speed limit set in it and I can see why there may be tension between dog walkers and fast moving cyclists - last week I saw a full kit wally on his £6k bike get angry with a dog walker and he had to brake sharply to avoid their dog - he was cycling way too fast for the park and got little sympathy from the other people on foot around him. I presume those who say that if any car driver falls foul of rules and gets a PCN then they take the same approach to these cyclists - if you are travelling faster than the park speed limit you cannot complain if you get a PCN?

I don't live in his ward and he will only engage with those that do.

@Earl Aelfheah the fear of crime in the Calton area is not being catalysed by me but by kids on e-bikes mugging people for their mobile phones. I am not going to revisit the argument we had earlier in the year but theft from person has risen massively and was heading for the worst year on record the last time I checked. But I really cant be bothered revisting it as it is a futile exercise. Those of us who live in the affected area hear and see what is happening and don't need others to tell us we are imagining it. The local PCSO team have said there is a correlation between certain types of crime increasing and the LTNs so I will take their expert opinion over anyone else's.

@Earl Aelfheah given you have a channel open with him might you ask him about the latest on the CPZ and then you might be able to answer the question about it for the forum?