bil

Baggs Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Westfield open soon? If you think 2020 is soon, > then you might be right! It looks like BoxPark, > where I think MeatLiquor may be opening a branch, > is going to be opening September at the earliest - > so if they are focussing on that first, expect a > long wait. The MeatLiquor will be located in the new Boxpark next to East croydon station (ruskin square). Boxpark croydon is due to open in 2016- it was anticipated for summer 2016...

Good evening all I jus saw an old lady out with a/her dog (think it's a golden retriever). This was on Whatley road I think (the road where the new school is being built with Bells bathroom/kitchen shop opposite. She was letting her dog foul in someones front garden. The building did not have a wall and looked like some building work was being done. I beeped my horn and she stopped. I reversed my car and asked why she would do something so disgusting on someone else's home. She ignored me. I said 'shame on you' which is what my Grandma used to say when I did something bad. Anyway whatever I said had no effect on her. I actually didn't know what else to do. What would you do? Would you have taken a picture???

Penguin68 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- Southwark has never shown any real > interest in the lives of its constituents in > Camberwell and places south, even Peckham. When it > comes to either actual financial investment, or > investment in officer time and energy we are a > lost cause. Bellenden and Nunhead have received some support and investment in the past. Not quite to the extent of Bankside, Borough or London bridge (or E&C) However I won't hold my breath for Southwark to lobby for better transport for ED, camberwell and peckham.

Looks wonderful! Thank you so much!

James Barber Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hi bil, > I suspect Boris favoured west London and indeed SW > London a la Cross Rail 2 as core constituency. > Livingstone you'd have thought would have favoured > SE London being so Labour but didn't make Cross > River Tram happen or Bakerloo Line extension. > We need to come up with idea to make Camberwell > and Peckham as attractive as the OKR in terms of > developer contributions. Lewisham council lobbied very hard to get the bakerloo line extension. My understanding is that they want to attract employment (and probably gentrification). Certainly both New cross (which has two stations) and Lewisham are already very well connected with fast network rail trains to London bridge, DLR at Lewisham and overground at both New cross stations so the bakerloo line is a bonus but not essential. I used to live in both areas. From New cross it would be mostly 7 minutes from London bridge and if you missed the train you could use the overground (east london line back then- always guaranteed a seat and then still get to London bridge in 10 minutes changing at canada water). Even taking the bus to E&C wasn't so bad because nearly all of the OKR has bus lanes on both sides so bus journeys into central are reasonably quick and there were a larger quantity of buses. Really convenient transport .... which is why I was so stunned when I came to ED (fabulous place to live) and it took so long (at least it felt soooooo long) to get anywhere unless you drive, cycle or get a scooter (which I'm considering). Slow trains, infrequent buses, 1 hour by bus to London bridge(zzzz) most of which is sitting in traffic on walworth road. Admittedly I didn't research ED transport options much before moving here and I assumed that being in zone 2 it would be quick to get to central. I wonder what Southwarks stance was on the consultation. OKR, camberwell and peckham are all in Southwark but regeneration of E&C has been very slow (15 years so far?) and perhaps they wanted new tube to be in ready in time for the finale of the regeneration in 2030. If there were some innovative plans to regenerate OKR area like Techcity or kings cross I would feel less disappointed. In reality it's likely there will be numerous expensive blocks of flats like Bermondsey spa and what's happening along new kent road/walworth road. In any case this area could do with some improvements well before 2030 . London overground at ED, London overground stop at Brixton (better connections) and sort our join up E&C's various lines (Thameslink, bakerloo and northern lines) as Rfolgado says. wooo I let it all out!

Jeremy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > bil Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I wonder if the OKR stations will be zone 1 or > zone 2. > > Interesting question. I noticed that the new Nine > Elms station will be zone 1, and this fact > features prominently on the marketing material for > the new developments going up round there. I > wonder if the developers insisted on the station > being in zone 1 before agreeing to contribute > funds? @Jeremy: I suspect that the US Embassy had some influence too

maybe it was the US embassy as well ?

rahrahrah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > You could be right JohnL, although it's hard to > see how TFL can ignore the transport needs of SE > London indefinitely. Somehow TfL continue to ignore SEL anyway.. Only Ken Livingstone tried to address the problems we face in this part of London..he started the London Overground orbital and extension to Croydon/crystal palace. I wonder whether we would have the river tram if he had remained as London Mayor. We know that Boris favours West and East London. Also agree with your comments about the consultation being a waste of time (and a farce)

The top of Dawsons hill is a great spot to watch the views across London... you can see the London eye but also Greenwich and battersea. The hill is steepish to get up ..in the past I've seen people bring blankets, wine food etc Enjoy!

Thanks James

Hi James Is there any chance of TfL taking over the Franchise 'served' by Southern railways (the company that provides a sporadic unreliable service to East Dulwich station) in the near-ish future? Thanks Bil

Thanks Sweptwind Fair enough; OKR opportunity area will bring in more (international) investors and wealth into the area. I wonder if the OKR stations will be zone 1 or zone 2. If an 'opportunity area' forms the basis of the argument to support the OKR branch, what is the rationale for investing in crossrail 2 that will run through areas already well served by public transport and not opportunity areas? Why isn't crossrail 2 including OKR (or any of south east London)? Will anyone at the new Camberwell station be able to get onto the already packed train? Also where did the sudden Blackeahth-Bexleyheath proposals come from?

lol

Hi Wulfhound Wouldn't the Bakerloo line extension to Lewisham (via Camberwell) have been an underground service? My impression is that it would be underground. Brixton is in zone 2 and receives frequent services. Similarly Camberwell and Peckham aren't in the suburbs and are both in zone 2 so it could be possible to provide 12/hour if the line from Elephant came to Camberwell/Peckham and then to Lewisham) was a dedicated underground line. I am certainly looking forward to seeing the changes along the OKR. There is a definite opportunity to provide lots of housing relatively close to central London. Will it be the equivalent of Battersea or Shoreditch? The government does need to invest in innovative large scale underground infrastructure services that will serve future generations. At the same time it's a real shame that TFL are not focusing on providing new services in areas where there are few/no underground options and are not providing real viable alternatives.

Sevenoaks line on London Overground? It's something but we need more frequent services than 4-6 an hour; we need 6-12 times an hour (i.e. underground services). Agreed that any solution is needed before 2030!

Disappointing but expected news from the TfL commissioner. Interesting that he didn't share the details of the 'work' that he mentioned in the report "Since then we have undertaken further work on a number of alternative routes proposed during the initial consultation. The results of that work demonstrate that the preferred route option for a first phase is from Elephant and Castle to Lewisham via Old Kent Road." I thought the consultation showed there was more support for Camberwell route (albeit because there aren't as many residents in the proposed OKR development area able to contribute to the consultation). Having a Thameslink station in camberwell is not very helpful as there is already a Thameslink station in Denmark hill. Presumably the same train from Denmark hill will serve the camberwell station so it will already be bursting full with people from Bromley, Crofton park, Peckham etc. Unless the trains are more frequent and/or they increase capacity on the trains and/or they terminate and start from the Camberwell station it's not going to solve the capacity problems we see in these parts (and seems like a waste of money to me). The reason we are crying out for an underground tube service in this area (or closeby) is that the underground runs more frequent services than network rail. The platform inevitably fills up during the 15-20 minutes between network rail trains and everyone has to fit in because there won't be another for another 15-20 minutes (if that train isn't cancelled). Trains coming every 2-3 minutes is what we want and is only offered by having a tube line underground (that doesn't have to share a line with any other train lines). It's a real pity. If Boris really wants us to stop using cars then better transport options have to be provided that can meet the capacity requirements. Instead we get road closures that create more congestion, continued attempts to be bullied into using bikes or scooter and 'compromise' transport solutions(e.g. London overground line that doesn't connect with Brixton tube or camberwell thameslink when we already have a thameslink)

How can we compare London to Amsterdam? London area 1,572 km? (, Amsterdam 219 km? (and flat). I clap (virtual clap) every time I see someone cycle up red post hill or Denmark hill. They must have thighs of steel! Even roads that appear flat often have some sort of gradient (I'm an ex-cyclist). Where are the hills in Amsterdam?. yes cycling up and down hills is good exercise but you don't want to do that and arrive sweaty (and smelly) in your smart clothes for dinner with your friends. You want to drive, take a cab, bus or tube. In Amsterdam people will cycle to dinner in their jeans, scarf and smart jacket (or whatever outfit they choose). They will still look smart and not flustered or sweaty; it is just more practical. (my experience) I've cycled in Amsterdam on a number of occasions; it's relatively effortless, the pace is usually slower. In fact the cyclists don't seem to have much regard for pedestrians (that's been my experience anyway).In London you will sweat and pant and usually need a shower after each cycling journey; that's if your bike or bike seat has not been stolen (I've had my seat taken and it was not fun trying to cycle home without a seat) Our weather is dreadful! My car keeps me warm and dry! My bags can sit on my seat or in the boot. I don't have to carry heavy items very far. I don't live near a station but when I've used public transport in the past I'd have to wait for 2-3 buses to pass before I could get on! and then pay for the privilege?? Oh and then get to Camberwell and have the bus driver stop the bus, turn off the ignition and wait 15-20 minutes because some idiot has decided not to pay (this was a regular experience)...I have better things to do with my time..No thank you! To be fair, using the Victoria line from Brixton is super quick and easy. Getting there from where I live isn't so easy! I've started to become more relaxed with all various traffic problems locally. I've decided to sit in the traffic for as long as it takes and not be bullied into using substandard and expensive public transport which still takes too long. Until the council and London Mayor give me better transport options in this area I won't be getting rid of my car...

Agreed.... driving is not the best solution, parking is limited and restricted to 4 hours and it isn't that flexible. What would also be ideal is to have a cycle hire scheme locally which provides flexibility and the options to use all the local stations. Demand would be high ... Anyway for now we have no hope for any public transport improvements

davidk Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Good news. There have already been some trial > closures that worked well. Really no good reason > that there should be traffic along there. > > Should hopefully open up another safe corridor for > cycling into the City from South and South East. I'm surprised by this statement. It's a road and that's enough reason for traffic to go along there. People want to get from A to B.... Unfortunately ED has dreadful transport links which are not going to improve anytime soon (or ever). The useless Southern Railway from ED via peckham to london bridge has ghost trains which disappear from the screen when they are due to arrive and the service mostly unreliable. It takes 1 hour to get into Victoria by bus from ED (the Plough) and you can spend all day getting down walworth road on a bus to Elephant & Castle! Before this recent road closure and the oval cycle highway works, it would take me 20 minutes or possibly 30 during rush hour to get to Victoria. Cycling isn't always practical for some of us (although hopefully improvements are making it safer) Wish TFL would take over Southern railway franchise to bring London overground to ED. I'm disappointed that they have closed off such a large section of Loughborough junction and Myatts Fields to traffic without providing some information on alternative routes. It's chaos now; people keep turning in the road. I'm sure there will be an accident soon.

Are any of your neighbours experiencing the problem? There may be a burst pipe nearby. Thames water should be able to assist too.

John Lewis collections are available from 'Little waitrose' branches as well.

LD929 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Did Southwark Council ever give a formal response > to the proposed extension? > > ... Nervermind, I found it: > http://www.southwark.gov.uk/news/article/1867/sout > hwark_calls_for_bakerloo_line_extension_via_old_ke > nt_road_and_camberwell_and_peckham Thanks for posting the link LD929 I thought the options were either Old kent road OR camberwell/peckham; not both. Southwark have supported the whole extension map. Regardless the extension, if approved, will definitely go to Lewisham via New Cross Gate (not sure why it's New Cross gate and not New cross which is already on the route to Lewisham, Ladywell etc)

I had to clear some dog mess from outside my house last week! I don't have any pets but since moving to ED I've had to clear up cat mss from my front garden at least weekly and dog mess on a regular basis (It's revolting). It's the same in our parks too. Not nice at all.

savvygirl Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > West Dulwich is classy, home to Dulwich College, > the Dulwich Picture Gallery and Dulwich Park. > Dulwich Village is just that, a village with > several specialist shops and a pub. It always > looks well maintained and is what you'd term > picturesque. It's posh! East Dulwich on the other > hand is the new pretender. It's got many shops, > pubs and restaurants and is very lively, lots > going on in the area. In recent years it's become > quite pricey to live in the area, some may term it > trendy. To compare West Dulwich with ED is like > comparing old money with new money. If you want > good transport links to the City then ED would be > best but even better is Forest Hill or Honor Oak > which has the East London Line Overground train > service. Personally I think Forest Hill is a much > nicer place, that is the part of Forest Hill near > to the Horniman Museum and Gardens and the right > side of the railway track! All the buses from > Forest Hill go down to Lordship Lane in ED, so > best of both worlds. Lots of parks and green > spaces all around. Suggest you pay a visit to > both areas. Aren't Dulwich park and Dulwich picture gallery are in Dulwich village not West dulwich? Dulwich park borders onto east dulwich too (I live within 5 minutes walk to Dulwich park and don't live in West dulwich.) I personally prefer the SE24 part of Dulwich/bordering on Herne hill (big houses, brockwell park is very nice and herne hill station is one stop from Brixton). ED is probably more interesting place to live but they (ED/WD) are both so close together. We looked at houses in both ED and WD but went for ED as we have peckham rye park/common at the other end of the road, Dulwich park at one end and a dawsons hill (with great views of london) in the middle. Many of the houses in this part (underhill/upland/dunstans) have panoramic views of London as does the Mamora road area too. Some parts of forest hill also have these amazing views which are partly obstructed by Dawsons heights (some don't mind/some do).

michael_FH Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > James Barber Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > The last time I asked the annual bus subsidy > per > > route was ?4M. > > The proposed Bakerloo extension is being touted > at > > circa ?2bn. > > > > Over crowded buses wont win the business case > > argument. If anything bus routes would be cut > to > > help finance it. > > I don't think the subsidy per route is that high > (especially not in South East London), but I think > the cost of a proper Bakerloo line extension > (going underground not using existing rail tracks) > is higher. > > You are correct that overcrowding on buses doesn't > automatically provide a business case, but it does > show a significant capacity issue in the South > East corridor, and almost certainly supressed > demand and slow connection times. It is the > supressed demand for public transport, and tube > particularly, in South East London that is the > reason for improving capacity. Bakerloo line is > not the most cost effective method in the short > term, but you cannot compare capital expenditure > to running costs on alternative service. If this > were the case then the case against Channel Tunnel > would have been overwhelming - why not just run a > few additional hovercraft? > > A business case for HS2 is based on the amount of > time wasted by people travelling to meetings in > Birmingham, so how time is wasted by bus commuters > (long journey time and waiting for full buses to > go past) when they could be busy working? > > Bakerloo line extension is about so much more than > bus capacity, but bus overcrowding in South East > London is a clear indication that something > serious is wrong in South East London and that a > radical solution is probably required, and the > right solution is obvious for anyone to see. Good points Michael_FH