Frisco

Sorry to hear that Gemma, what a horrible welcome to ED!

2. This may be naive but I remember hearing that South London didn't have v. good tube links because of the Victorian sewers weakening the ground (as in Blackheath Hill a few years ago). The Blackheath Hill issue had nothing to do with sewers, it was due to (mostly unmarked) tunnels that remained from unauthorised mining excavations in the 18th and 19th centuries. What they were mining for or what they hoped to find, I don't really know. I'm not sure the sewer theory holds much water (geddit?), as the same issue would have affected tube developments north of the river, and also the southern parts of the Northern and Bakerloo lines. Oh, and I certainly don't want microban to stop posting either. I too usually enjoy reading his posts.

"Kingsdale received an outstanding Ofsted report and is now providing its children with good opportunities; it doesn't need people like you rubbishing it through ignorance and stereotyping." Charter is also doing very well and your figures are just plain wrong. If you can't get things like this right when you're a teacher, what hope is there for those who are being taught. This is my understanding of the situation with these schools too, and I take a particular interest in Kingsdale as I had to forgo the opportunity a few years ago of becoming a governor of that school, due to health problems I was having, but I d maintain an interest in schools and their performance, as a current governor of a school in the north of the borough.

"I take it you won't be at the Plough tomorrow night then?" I've never been in it in over 20 years here, and the pubs of ED (or anywhere else) don't hold much allure for me now that I'm not supposed to drink any alcohol. :'( They wouldn't have been able to modernise and regenerate on the basis of my pub spending - although I'm sure fizzy water is more expensive than a pint in ED. I'm going to give the oyster bar (there's regeneration/gentrification for you) in ED Warehouse a try though, sans white wine accompaniment.

"Have you got a heart Frisco?" I have EDO, but it may not (as with with other parts of my body) be fully functioning at the moment. "I enjoy your acerbity even if others find it a bit of a challenge." Thank you, I aim to entertain (and not just myself!). ;-) Discussion can be lively and doesn't have to be boring, and ED and regeneration in general, isn't boring for me. I even like transport history, in the right context. Sad, eh? Thanks, for your good wishes re. tomorrow. I have to admit that I'm pretty nervous about it.

"Fair enough - I'm not so hot on sport either." Noted, for when I put together my ED quiz team! How are you on south London geography?* I've just had to reject someone ;-) *no reply necessary

"I'm out of my depth when it comes to the historical intricacies of the London transport network." Only when it comes to the London transport network, Bob? ;-)

"Perhaps someone could shed some light on the possible proposed Victoria Line extension through ED. It's something that I remember hearing some time ago, that's all." Did the person you heard it from have any basic knowledge of the geography of south London? Someone mentioned an extension of the VictoriaLine to Herne Hill, which might have been conceivable. However, as far as I'm aware, the original* Victoria Line plan would have taken the line to Streatham, which is also in a direct line from Brixton to Croydon. I cannot see the point, likelihood or economic benefit to south London of the massive cost of a diversion to ED from that route, but I'm quite prepared to be proved wrong. But facts please, not fantasy. *I am talking post-WW2 here macroban, btw, and also a plan that relates to the current VL.

"C'mon Frisco - it's Christmas. Tell us a joke or something." Bob, I thought the joke was in the posting above yours. :-S I have to keep myself amused somehow you know! :))

"As I understand it, the extension of the Victoria Line from Brixton to Croydon would have gone through East Dulwich." Well, it's certainly the first I've ever heard of such as plan. I'm fascinated and, yes, if true, you're right it would have made a massive difference to ED and the regeneration of its shopping area - although it didn't do much for Brixton. Do tell us more, and please link to a reliable source that gave rise to your understanding of this significant development for ED. Perhaps macroban can help?

Glad to have been of assistance, and I hope the new lock does the trick. I've been burgled 3 times in 20 years here, but not for nearly ten (touch wood) since I became more security conscious and installed lights, as well as always trying to make the house seem occupied to likely opportunistic burglars, which in recent years it mostly is.

"Frisco, you have a real knack for being gratuitously insulting." Only when I feel it's required Zebedee, and it's not really that different to gratuitous and misplaced superiority. Also, I never left the subject. However, just to remind you that the subject is actually the regeneration of ED, and, by extension, the effect on that of rail services to and from ED, and not the extension of the Victoria Line beyond Brixton to East Croydon. ;-)

"Frisco, you have a real knack for being gratuitously insulting." Only when I feel it's required Zebedee, and it's not really that different to gratuitous and misplaced superiority.

"Looking at the tube map it always amazes what a rubbish deal south london gets in terms of tube links. Why is that?" From what I recall reading, it was considered at the time that south London was already adequately served by overground commuter trains, and that the investment south of the river wasn't really required. The later problem with that, of course (as illustrated by macroban's train timetable from 1957), was that British Rail services didn't work in any kind of harmony or integration with other local transport services, such as the tube, and it was mostly immune from local pressure to maintain and improve local services, particularly off-peak services. It's only now, under Ken, that the issue of a fully integrated transport system is being seriously put in place, and I suspect that almost 20 years was lost, as he would have followed similar policies had he been able to as Leader of the GLC.

"And this is the proposed extensions for the East London Line:" Yes, we know it is now, but we've been (I thought) tracing the development of the plan (apparently back beyond 1902) when it was proposed not only to come to ED but to terminate here. The veracity of this was proved by dc in his posting which contained an abstract from Hansard dating from 1990. I hope all this excitement doesn't affect the heart scan I'm having to have tomorrow* at Kings! *this is true

"surely Edward Alleyn started the regeneration of East Dulwich." Good point EDoldie. "It's interesting that on the internet some people seem to feel that it's OK to describe people as 'anal' and 'nerdish', whereas they would never do it face to face for fear of receiving a Glasgow kiss from the person being insulted." Don't you believe it Zebedee, I never say things on the internet that I wouldn't say to people face-to-face (when they are sober). Also, but my words and opinion that what was being said in response to points I was making was anal and nerdish are, as opposed to your apparent preference of resorting to a 'Glasgow kiss' in response, neither violent nor criminal. But perhaps that's the 'Wanstead' aspect still showing, eh?

"Relax Frisco, what's the problem with pointing out the odd bit of historical trivia?" Thanks for your concern Jeremy but I'm quite relaxed actually. The problem with trivia is when it results in pointed comments like: "Perhaps because it's not true?", when it clearly is, in the context of what's being discussed. The discussion was about recent ED regeneration, and what I wrote regarding Sunday train services at ED station was true in 1987, and for quite a long time both before and after. The reinstatement of Sunday and late evening train services to and from ED station undoubtedly assisted in making ED a viable and attractive place for people who rely public transport, and by implication it would have had a direct effect on regeneration of the local area and its shopping facilities. However, suggesting that I was not telling the truth was provocative, and could easily have been phrased differently so that it was not so, while still pointing out the trivia (which I, perhaps like other saddos interested in ED and other local social history, would have been interested in myself - but in the proper context).

"The gradient would be an interesting engineering problem." But not impossible to solve, if it's considered as wider than a vertical issue. Not very 'can do', are you?

"I moved into Camberwell in 1984 and shortly afterwards there was talk of plans to extend the bakerloo line from the elephant." I lived there then, in Flodden Road, and I remember this well. I could never understand why they didn't just consider bringing the Bakerloo line above ground at E&C and link it to the overground line to take it to Camberwell and beyond. This is what they're doing with the East London Line to link it to Peckham Rye, after all. The old Camberwell Station could have been reinstated in (surprise) Station Road, and the link could then have continued in a choice of directions. 'Dicky Dirts' I was trying to recall the name of that place in another thread last week, the one where the weird man who ran the jeans shop on Whateley Road was mentioned.

"Basically this group is just an idea I have had to put cat owners in touch and could become a bit of a social thing." It's a very good idea. When my cat went missing for several days it was at a time that I was quite ill and mostly housebound (much more than now) and recently living alone. It was an added stress I didn't really need. I struggled to put posters up in area, so this forum would have been a very good thing to have had access to then. I'm still not much good at going out cat searching though.

"does anyone know anyone cheapish/reputable in the SE22 area?" There was a recent thread about the locksmith on LL, opposite the Co-op chemist, which had mixed reports. Might be worth getting a quote from them though.

"I reckon Frisco and macroban are in fact the same (slightly odd) person." Nothing odder than being called Cuthbert Dibble, is there? No, not the same person, I don't believe I have OCD. Btw, have you contributed to theories and discussions about the regeneration of ED, or very much else come to that?

"I live in a block of six flats in Melbourne Grove. Her flat screen telly , two laptops and jewellery was taken. The scary thing was I was in at the time and didn't hear anything." Above GM's? If so, that's really cheeky as there are always lots of people around. I think we can expect more of this in the run-up to Christmas, so it's probably a good time to be more security conscious.

"Plans cancelled in 1902." So, what has that, an 'original' Victorian* plan that never happened (not even any tracks laid), got to do with the recent (over the last 20 year period) regeneration of ED and its shopping centre? I sensed you'd were determined to go back as far as the coming of the trams to ED. Which shops that opened on LL in 1902 are you going to suggest started ED's regeneration? How did the opening and closure of LL Station affect it? Clearly, we need to know for the situation on 2007 to make sense. "Happy to educate." And I'm happy to be educated, but in the right context and by genuine educators, who wouldn't to do so in such an obviously anal, irrelevant, nerdish and point-scoring way. *Yes, I know it was cancelled during Edward VII's reign.

"Are they just picked up by the roadsweeper? Do they have chip scanning facilities?" When Sid went walkabout in 2002, I checked these things out with the council, but it may have changed since then. I was told that they do collect the remains of cats killed on roads, but that they don't attempt any identification of ownership, either by looking at name/address tags or checking for microchips. A poor service, I thought, and not exactly an expensive service to provide (as well as one that could contribute to improving the public image of the council).