star13uk

Well - can certainly pass it on to the powers that be - its a matter for you Local Council. People like yourself need to be getting onto them and putting the case for it. Getting as many people as possible to agree with you would help. I will do my best to make a case - usually helps if we can provide evidence, near misses and the like. I can also bring it up with the bus drivers as to whether or not they have noticed an issue - Health & Safety is all powerful these days. (Somebody might sue!) Did I not see a Local Councillor with a thread on here? He might a guy to approach.

I think you are right. Soceity has changed. 24hr news, internet, scare stories make the headlines. Perceptions have shifted if not the facts. Athough the road have got busier and faster. That morning I observed lots of young kids making their way to school on their own. One issue I did observe was that the road can get pretty busy (mainly with cars turning up and dropping off kids) that crossing the road for young kids was sometimes an issie that parents would worry about. The school might help with that or maybe a crossing?

I don't like the idea of people feeling troubled by jeers and leers and being made to feel uncomfortable. Just ignoring it, laughing it off or having to face up to drunken men and tell them off not always the best advice for everybody. It could even escalate and cause bigger problems. Some people can deal with that kind of thing, other can't. True - it is better if any of those solutions above resolves the issue - but does that excuse that behaviour in the first place? It is anti social behaviour - and causing alarm, distress or harassment to others (however harmless the intent) is an offence. The SNT should be told and hopefully they might have quiet word and tell them to behave a little better. The pub also has a responsibility for how its patrons behave - and words could also be had with them. i am sure those drinkers are not really aware of the effect they are having, and hopefully once they realise, they might behave a little better to passing people.

Marmora Man - the reason he would get a "pull" is because somebody took the trouble to voice their not unreasonable concerns. Hard to avoid in this day and age. If the police had ignored Becky123's complaint they would be rightly critised (especially if somewhere down the line there was some kind of incident.)and might even face disiplinary proceedures. From the sound of it, they took note, invesigated to the best of their limited ability, and decided there was no evidence of any wrong doing. What would you like to have happened? It is hard to avoid in this day and age that people have not unreasonable concerns regarding their children being photographed - the fact remains there is no law against taking photographs in public places - but when people object some kind of action needs to be taken, only if it is put their fears to rest. Don't really see how you avoid it. They guy taking photographs should understand the concerns, happily complie to having his images and his details checked. Somebody with other motives would not be so pleased. Sadly there are unsavoury, predetory poeple out there - and checks such as this are often how they get their collars felt.

catgirl - you're right. The communtiy needs to support the community. Its a disgusting thing to have to observe or deal with. Let the council know - they have to take acion if people make an issue of it. Let the SNT know - problems like this are what they are supposed to be responding to. Just having a word about their anit-social behaivour is usually enough - they need evidence. Who is he? Where does he live? When does it happen. I see him - there is no way we can walk on by. It's not really something we are supposed to deal with, but as "good citizen" it has to challenged, and reported and dealt with somehow. It is a finable offence that the Local Authoriy needs to deal with - but they need the ammunition/evidence.

Update and clarification. I was there Friday morning (only shift of the week on early turn) to observe what was going on and chat to people. Everybody was very well behaved - a few people said it was becasue we were visible. We can issue a ?40 ticket if we can evidence an obstruction (buses primarily). Several cars seemed to be about to park up - saw us and moved on. There were a few fast "stop and drops" with no buses obstructed. Not really got a problem with that - but seveal vehicals parked up (out the way) while the kids were walked into the school - I suspect they might be a problem if we were not there. We talked to bus drivers who said it was "a bit of an issue" but nothing major. Taking details of cars causing a real problem and letting us or the council know would help identify persistant offenders. We could have word in their shell likes. We also found some parking attendants to question - they seemed to be saying they avoid the school dropoff/pickup as it can get pretty confrontational - they prefere unattended vehicles, not angry parents. Something to take up with the LA. We are meeting the Schools officer to see what can be done as to laising with St Anthony's (Kingsdale has put in a good policy - free buses etc - to reduce the impact on the Rt3). We hope to repeat our visits and the idea might get around - we catch somebody on the zig zags, or blocking a bus they will get a ticket. We will try and get the SNT to pop by and "show the flag" when they are available. Any other suggestions?

I would recommend on Jerry Pournelle - A Step Further Out. The future is bleak (Club of Rome) and it has been recognised for a long time. But each major issue does have its solution - just the lack of political will or consensus of the voters. The only worry is that by the time the will is there, the means may have gone. Politically, space is pretty much a non starter - we are far too short term in our thinking. But, the answers do lie in that direction. Expensive indeed - but not so much when compared to warfare and nuclear weapon systems. And cost is relative - if it an issue of survival, what does the cost actually matter? I remain an optimist in the face of it all - just hope we don't leave it too late.

It may be that we have gone to far down the "pass by on the other side" for it to change. If everybody "stood up" it might make a difference. The occasional "have a go hero" is unexpected and not taken into account by the perpetrators of crime any more. But as to whether or not it is worth it... what kind of society do you want to live in? There are middle roads - doing what is safely possible without exposing yourself to personal physical attack - calling for help, making as much noise as possible, standing up to be a witness to events. These are real deterrents - too many criminals walk the street because no body is prepared to stand witness against them. They also know how easily people are intimidated - they fear little from the general public - and without evidence and witnesses the Police find it hard to get a prosecution against them. They the get a community order, a slap on the wrist or a fine they fund by committing more crime. It is our society ? and it is we who determine what it is by our own actions, or inactions.

At the slight risk of a shoeing... I can't help thinking it matters not. Whatever we do will make no difference at all. Convince China, India, Brazil etc are looking out on missing the great Western lifestyle and I might change my mind. Anybody remember the "Club of Rome" from the sixties I think? Or Jerry Pournelles "A Step Further Out" ? Our future of remaining on this island earth is a very limited one - population growth, pollution, lack of renewable resources, etc.... There are answers to all these issues but until the problem gets serious enough, nothing will be done about it in any meaningful way. Governments acting globally are the only way we may solve most of the big issues - but until becomes critical they only care about the short term and their re-election prospects.

Bendy?s are bad. They are too long for London streets. They cause untold congestion when blocking junctions. They are expensive on the maintenance side (like catching fire too). They well known as the "free bus" - not sure the new ones will help in that regard. TfL are currently running at a significant loss. I can well believe it, passing tens and tens (on my bike) of more or less empty buses queuing up along Brixton Rd, Fulham Palace Rd to name a couple. I do think the public in this country do have the power to influence the decision makers - if they care enough to get organised. Bus Conductors are major case in point - they are sorely missed by many. Employment opportunity or what? Nag your councillors, MPs etc. Would you pay a little more if it led to conductors returning to the buses?

It is shocking in this day and age. Makes me wonder how I ever survived childhood. My dad did that with us all the time - sitting on his lap letting us drive. Not sure society has got it right yet though... Anybody else over the big 5 0 who remembers when being a kid was fun - without electronic aids. i grew up without TV, computers (Africa) - and just about everything we got up to would probably be illegal now (in a 'Elf n Safty way). But it was fun.

PinkyB Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- People who wait at pedestrian crossings and don't press the button. ? How about people who press the button, then cross anyway. After they are gone the man turns green and the traffic has to stop for the red light... and nobody crosses? AAAAARGH.

I would guess it also depends on what you want out of life yourself. I tend to trusting (but not particualarly naive) as a starting point - events dictate how it turns out. I have had "friends" who have done me for a couple of hundred pounds once or twice over the years... I can live with that. They ain't friends no longer and I am happy in myself. Do unto others tends to be my attitude and try not to prejudge anybody. Better to have loved and lost... etc. I have also made wonderful who remain so after thirty years or so. If you cant live the occassional let down you would do well never to trust... but you would also miss out on the good stuff. Each to their own.

Steady Eddy - we are trying to "piggy back" on the SNT surgeries. The two we attended so far had a zero turnout from the public - but we hope to attend all that our weird shift pattern and postings allow. The Surgeries I mentioned are held in the Bus Garages (our remit) with the bus drivers. Dulwich itself lacks a bus garage so we attend at Camberwell and Peckham along with their own Ward Teams.

UncleAlbert : Drug dealers are out of our remit unless we come across them. The Safter Neighbouhood Teams are responsible for dealing with drug dealers, shop lifters and other things of an anti social behairvoir line that go on in their wards. PCSO's are not Police. They are civilians doing what all good civilians should be doing - supporting the Police and Community. You see drug dealers? Get as much detail as you can and report it to the SNT or Police. Drug dealers operate where they feel safe, the Police need evidence to get any kind of conviction. Our own remit is funded by Tfl to travel on buses, along the bus routes and help make them a better, safer place - we find a drug dealer on a bus or at a bus stop we would certainly deal with them. Point out a drug dealer to me and we will get action taken. Over the last 3 months of working in the Dulwich area, no body has said a word to us about drug dealers in the area.

taper : re CAN CHILDERN CYCLE ON PAVEMNENTS. As we have been taught at Hendon, technically, no - it is an offence. But as 10 is the legal age of responsibiltiy no one really bothers about kids under 10. It is still an offence mind you - just not enforcable. If they persist in being a problem, we (TPCSO)are not suposed to ignore it. They can be detained, the police can be called and they can be taken home and "words" had with their parents. I can issue an FPN(N)508 "Cycling on the footway" to anybody aged 18 or above. 10 - 18 can still be issued in presence of a parent. So... it could be case of then being in the company of their parent, or if you are really keen, taking them home and doing it there. Name checks etc would be done on them and they can be detained while all that goes on. The "attitude" check plays a large role in that. I have seen too many accidents involving cyclists v buses and HGV's that unless they are really being a problem, riding through people etc, stopping them for a simple word of advice has usually sufficed for me.

trinity : Deaths caused by cyclists hitting pedestrians are very rare. Cylist hitting pedestrians and doing the whole range of just frightening them, grazing them and all the way up to broken bones and rather more frequent. Every annual survey shows that one of the highest concerns raised by pedestrians is cyclists. More cycle lanes, less road and pavement even, has to be the way. One of the most common compliants I have heard over my six years has been about cyclists - usually from the elderly folk who tell me how often they have been knocked over by cyclists. Er.. my better half don't qualify as elderly and she is constantly bending my ear about it.

Nero : Drivers going through red lights. Indeed they do - and I have been with police officers when they issue the tickets for it. (Who me officer? You must be mistaken!) Most traffic laws in this country are policed "by consent", not enforcement - good manners and good example. But times they are a changin. More enforcement seems to be the only way to go, but not sure who is doing it. You need to have a police officer (in the right frame of mind for the paperwork involved) to witness it, and then be bothered to stop the offender. We (TPCSO's) have no "moving offence" powers. Pointed fingers and glowers. To my mind, bicycles are the biggest offenders for failing to stop at red lights - and I have seen the growth in scooters copying them. Cars seem to be doing it more and more these days. Good/bad examples seem to set the trends. Buses driving dangerously - they need to be reported. Bus route number, running number, index - the driver is obliged to give you his driver number (in theory) to allow you to make a complaint. However cynical you might feel about it, such complaints are not treated lightly. The driver would be forced to defend himself to his supervisors. Repeated complaints would not be swept under the carpet and build up against him. Again, not an immediate response, but still worth doing. Tell us who and when and we would be happy to pass it on in the surgeries we hold.

Curmudgeon : Bus comment and the 37 bus drivers - most certainly. If you can get an index (number plate) and the running number - sometimes in front window, sometimes on the side - it would help us get to the specific driver, specific vehicle. We do have sessions with the various bus garages, and would be only too happy to pass on your comments to the drivers and their supervisors. Any issues with specific buses, or their drivers - we can pass onto them. Like I said - this is nothing official and I am a mere lowly cog. I can promise to pass on the complaint... but I can't promise that the drivers start acting on it overnight. But, the more you beat them over the head, the more it tends to sink in.

SteveT : I always loved the poem - as an ex Squaddie - and it's tone. Dulce et decroum est, pro patria mori. Said with the proper irony, of course.

computedshorty : Been doing this nearly 6 years as a response unit to accident scnenes. Too many squashed bike riders (12 so far). I don't do "cycling on the pavement" offences cos I have no intention of telling anybody to ride in the road. We need proper cycle lanes in this country.

Gimme : St Anthony's School - indeed. Already noted and we had a quick look around and a chat with some bus drivers this Saturday morning. Really an issue for the local PA's but we intend to try and get there on an early turn. A few photos would help make our case, and hopefully we will have a few "words of advice". If the problem persists we can certainly do a bit of enforcement - which for us would be the ?40 "52" offences. The PA's can hit them harder. We can also pass it on to the SNT Schools team to have a word from that end. We shall see.

Hello all. Thought I should introduce myself. I live fairly locally, but just in the other side of boarder ( L word). I work for the South East 2 Reassurance Team as a Traffic PCSO based at the Oval. Our team covers all of Southwark ? and for good behaviour and long service, myself and two colleagues have a particular responsibility for East Dulwich, College and Village wards. We work for the buses primarily but like the Safer Neighbourhood Teams will turn our hands to anything we can help with. I am only a lowly cog in very large and bureaucratic machine so can only promise to do what I can, when I can. Weird shift patterns and Southwark based taskings. This a purely personal and in no way official. Just seems like a useful way to interact with the Community I am trying to support. I have already seen some interesting things here, and would like to find more. Any bus/bustop/traffic/roads/general anti social behaviour problems ? we would like to hear about them and would like to try and do something about them. Even it is only to pass such information onto the relevant authorities as local concerns. I am 50, ex Army, ex traveller, ex IT support and have been doing this job (although in a different role) for nearly six years now. I am also happy to try and answer anything you care to ask.

Complain the the Safter Neighbourhood Team - they should get the PA's to target them. Traffic PCSO's if they see the problem can issue ?40 tickets for "Uneccessary Obstruction" if they can get to the scene. And if genuinly dangerous (tricky to prove) they can also issue an FPN which would put 3 points on their licence. Make a noise, make complaints... it will get targeted. I get up their when I can - funny shift patterns and long bus rides - and will see what I can do.

I would rather see an offence of "Dangerous cycling" than the blanket No Cycling on the pavement. I have seen a dozen or so squashed and countles damaged cyclists over the last six years from encounters with HGV's and buses. I ride a motorbike and think cyclists in the traffic are insane. Elderly folks, mothers with young children and pedestrians in general hate cyclist on their pavements - for good reason. If cyclists take care when the pavemnents are busy - get off and walk it through the bus queues etc - cycling on an empty footpath in a safe and considerate manner makes a lot more sense than clogging up our narrow roads and risking life and limb. But... politically cyclist on pavements are the flavour of the times - but it tends to be the reasonable, generally law abiding riders who stop, give a correct name and address - who get the tickets. Stopping a cyclist who does not want to stop is problamatical. Knock him off? Guess who gets in trouble then?