Gabe

Give it up, lads. The Southwark LTNs, including this one in Dulwich, are a big success for the majority of people. The idea that Lorsdship Lane and East Dulwich Grove weren't full of rush hour traffic beforehand is laughable.

On balance, I'm in favour of the Low Traffic Neighborhoods. I am personally inconvenienced a little when I drive but we get the benefit when we cycle or walk. I appreciate quite a few people need to drive and that LTNs concentrate traffic on main roads, which is bad for the people that live along them. But we have to do something at some point. Undoubtedly, there are many people making spurious car and van journeys that could easily be replaced. It's going to be hard to make a judgement on the LTNs until public transport use is back to more normal levels. I'd keep them for now.

Somehow fixing the junction at Dulwich Village would be very helpful. I would like my kids to cycle the 3 miles to school, but as it stands, it is too dangerous even though they are fairly good on the road. The Southwark Spine seems like a good idea provided it is of good quality. It won't inconvenience drivers much at all (I also have car, btw) and will probably reduce the impact of rat running.

I've been through on the bike a few times since it re-opened. It's not much different. It's tempting to blame the bed-wetters on here for the compromised design, and then Southwark Council for listening to them. But I suspect the major problem, and the reason the cycling safety aspects have gone missing, is TFL. Still, hopefully it's nicer for pedestrians. There seem to be less railings to hem everyone in. There's a good example of what I think might be a Quiet Way running along the north of Old Kent Road to Deptford. Quite a bit of it is on normal roads, but with bollards at certain points to restrict through traffic for cars, but keep it open for cyclists. It's really well done (for the most part) and I'm happy riding along there with my kids. So clearly it can be done in Southwark.

Tessmo -- agreed, getting it right is important. So is getting it done. I'm glad there might be some progress... possibly. Threads such as these can be helpful to getting it right, since most people on here are local or use the junction.

I was a bit unkind with that comment. Sorry. But the way I read a few of the posts above is that the council is *only* doing this because TFL is giving them money, which is cynical nonsense.

Some (most) of the people on this thread are trolling themselves now. It would be vaguely amusing if the tone wasn't so unpleasant.

Tessmo -- I agree with that. There are many other local junctions that also need to be addressed and will be impacted by what happens with this project. That's one of the reasons why it's important it doesn't get de-railed.

This is a prime example: "the council seem only to be interested in a solution that guarantees them the ?200K+ cycling cash". Right. I'm sure that's the case. Absolutely. To your point, no, there's no reason at all why large vehicles should using Townley Road, and especially, they should not be accessing it via Calton Avenue. One of the sensible objections (as far as I'm able to follow this) is that building out the pavements will mean coaches swinging on wide arc to make the turn. This is obviously dangerous. Restricting how these vehicles can travel through the area would be for the common good. Road design can help with that. And the nearby schools have to take more responsibility for their coaches and buses.

This thread is very disappointing. Bar a few exceptions, the tone of the discussion is one of self-interested sharp-elbowed local residents hectoring more or less any proposal to improve a horrible junction that needs to be fixed. This will inevitably impact some car drivers, but that would be well worth it. And that should just be the start. The problems extend well beyond the junction. Calton Avenue is basically a rat-run along a marked cycle route that, currently, is in no way suitable for teenagers and less confident cyclists. Coaches, buses, and lorries should be restricted from using this road. And then attention should turn to rationalising the junction in Dulwich Village, which is equally bad.

BrandNewGuy -- you don't need victim figures to know this is horrible junction right at the point where there are three schools (soon to be four) and where one of Southwark's major cycle ways crosses (and connects to two more large schools). It is obvious this junction is a problem. Hopefully it will be fixed before a tragic accident. And, yes, there are many other dangerous junctions and road layouts.

fazer71 -- it's a horrible junction that is an accident waiting to happen, so yeah, it needs fixing

What wulfhound said. More or less. Zebedee Tring, if you're so concerned, why not just ring the guy and ask him? What I don't get is why people who live around there would be against having less traffic barrelling down their street.

I see what you mean, I think. The right run itself is not the prime issue, especially in isolation. Inevitably cyclists will take a right here, even if it's banned. It a natural way to go.

"In my experience many cyclists do not see themselves bound by the same restrictions as powered drivers." Yeah, they're also not empowered in the same way. It's obvious this will create different behaviors. It's not much of contribution to go down this line of argument. Let's not do anything because some cyclists jump reds... and on and on...

I wouldn't worry to much about that right turn being banned. Reading these comments, it seems very unlikely to happen. It's not even the only major issue at that junction for cyclists. There are more problems: once you've avoided being side-swiped crossing the main road, most cyclists then need to pull across and take a right down Calton Avenue. That turn is also horrible for less experienced or less confident riders. Then, at busy hour, Calton Avenue itself is blocked with traffic and buses (loads of buses for some reason), before you reach the junction at Dulwich village which is absolutely awful for cyclists, pedestrians and drivers. My main concern, personally speaking, is my kids riding to and from Kingsdale School. A lot of kids also ride (or would like to ride) to Dulwich College. And presumably in the reverse direction to the schools like JAGS or Charter. The way the whole area is set-up at the moment doesn't seem to work well for anyone at all at rush hour. Banning the right turn would be a minor inconvenience for me because I drive that way sometimes. That part of the junction is bad, but it's not even the biggest problem.

I'm also strongly in favour of removing the right turn. This junction *feels* dangerous on a bike and is at a critical part of the local cycle network. Greendale is a good and well-used cycle lane that disgorges riders out into a mess of a junction; this is especially a problem for kids riding to and from the many local schools in the area. Cars misjudge the right turn, and cut across cyclists, very frequently. It's only matter of time before there's a tragic accident. Moreover, a lot of the traffic along Calton Avenue is rat running. It backs-up all the way to Dulwich Village, which itself is virtual gridlock at least twice a day.

Loz -- yeah, ride safely. Good tip. It is self evident. But thanks for that.

Glad you're okay josephineB Silver Fox, what an idiotic comment. Ratty, filtering is perfectly legal. But what's way more common is drivers cutting in and across to make left turns without looking, or judging the gap poorly, or just not really caring about knocking someone off. So maybe just, you know, look where you going.

LoisP - we live there. It's a great street and a great area. Transport is mostly excellent (Peckham Rye is 5 minutes walk), depending where you want to go. There are loads of buses as well.

@pebs -- that's a good route. More or less what I do as far as Trinty Square (from there Great Suffolk Street goes right to Waterloo)