mockney piers

...eat wolf nipple chips etc.

That's rather the point of it being a non prejudicial system. Though he may say as such in private there is no way your pal should take his own perceptions regards their guilt into consideration. Accused are innocent until proved otherwise. Any moves away from that and you'll pretty soon end up with extra-judicial executions, etc etc, and if you think the rich have an advantage now, just wait until you can effectively buy your way out of justice/injustice. You don't have to look too far in distance and/or time to find many examples, and we've only a good couple of hundred years of it here ourselves. Your mate's conscience and Barry George's incarceration/freedom is a small price to pay for a system that may be far from perfect, but is at least constantly under scrutiny. For myself and this case, it always looked pretty iffy, and one microscopic piece of gunpowder that could have come from a firework on a jacket should never have persuaded a jury. One previous juror said that they were guaranteed that this was cast iron evidence of guilt, and apart from that none of the rest of the case would have come even close to putting him away. I don't think he was fitted up knowingly, I think the police genuinely felt he was the man, and it is their job to provide the evidence, even if it is rather weak. The CPS really shouldn't have let it get to court, but then there was A LOT of media pressure all round at the time.

I've been banned by the missus from watching Wexford (hurling or football), especially at Croke Park where I have a 100% jinx record so far (it's about 95% on the telly) "overpaid prima donnas" by the sounds of things, of late at least, the main difference is that they're unpaid prima donnas ;) At least Olympic athletes are clean living amateurs aren't they....err...aren't they?!?!

Are they Reports written in SQLDirect? You're better off just learning SQL, it's much easier than those awful graphical interfaces.

Put these words in the correct order arse the give couldn't rat's about I a Olympics. I dunno, the 50m Macram? is always exciting.

And then there was Michael Caine who only came to build a bloody bridge, or something ;-)

Over and Over and Over Again - Clap Your Hands Say Yeah

I quite agree, I think I said before that now, with the peace process in full swing, just how reasonable were the demands that were acceptable for an end to violence. Those that should feel guilt were those who wanted to hang on to their exclusive positions of power and those unwilling to negotiate. Once again the interests of the power elite making the average punter who just wants to get on with their life suffer. But as you say, that's the way of the world sadly :(

Ha ha, very true, it's amazing how quickly we go from 1066 to crop rotation to 2 world wars and one world cup. Even after a university history degree I had a bizarre gap in my knowledge of domestic history between 1651 and 1914.

I don't think anyone here thinks, Cromwell, he was great killing all those Irish, in fact most probably don't even know because we were only taught about his victory over the royalists and establishing Parliament as the highest law in the land. Actually if there was criticism it's generally to do with the OTT puritanism, smashing all those lovely statues in churches and painting them white etc etc. Alba's not lauded in Spain as he miserably failed to defeat the English (although if the armada had succeeded in neutralising the English Navy I don't doubt he'd have made it to London very easily, the English Army didn't stand a chance) and retired more or less in disgrace, again I doubt if a single child in Spain is even taught about the Dutch war of independence, an epic struggle that's little known about anywhere outside of the Low Countries. Spaniards are barely even taught about their own civil war!! In fact Cromwell's campaign in Ireland was very much in that civil war sort of context, it wasn't an Irish nationalist uprising that was crushed by the nasty English (it was painted in that light during the genuinely nationalist struggles of the 19th & 20th centuries), it was very much in the context of a three sided war, between parliamentarians, royalists and the Irish Nobility who tried to take advantage of the a power vaccuum. In fact most of those killed at Drogheda were English Royalist troops.

"britains power elite who were responsible for cromwells reign of terror, [blah blah], mention that to the irish of birmingham, guildford, manchester, warrington, and london and i think you'll get your eyes opened a wee bit." So let me get this right, I'm supposed to suffer some sort of collective guilt for Cromwell. But there is no collective guilt for blowing people up in birmingham, guildford, manchester, warrington, and london. Presumably because the dead and maimed were not innocent people but all tainted with that same collective guilt, but pity the poor innocent Irish who suffered a backlash. It's rather having your cake and eating it too isn't it? Funnily enough when living in Amsterdam for a year, no Dutchman ever asked (the spanish half of) me to feel guilty for the actions of the Duke of Alba or his successors, and he made Cromwell look like a school playground bully by comparison.

I think it was a family business type affair and they all seemed a happy bunch, i think the cost of living drops pretty dramatically away from the tourist areas, this was where the taxi driver would eat.

Yeah, we had a great meal in a commuter town outside KL, four of us had thalis on banana leaves, fed to bursting point and absolutely delicious. I settled the cheque, 5 quid...for the lot!!!!

The Beeb didn't exactly help: "We're fine, our houses are worth lots" Ha ha DaveR, :D, I wish.

House price inflation gives people confidence in the future and collateral to borrow against, all encouraging spending. I'd say it wasn't a case of nothing being to done to slow things down, but that it was a situation positively encouraged as it gives the illusion of a healthy economy and growth. Of course it's easy to see with hindsight that it was a castle built on sand, but then it was easy to see it with foresight, hence why every evening standard headline for the last n years has been something on the lines of 'Boffo the Gorilla dies at London Zoo, House Prices Unaffected' and plenty of press given to unsustainable levels of personal debt etc (when did it hit a trillion quid? 2 years ago?). So something could have been done to head this at the pass, but higher interest rates don't win elections, pretending we're all hunkydory did. I do have a mortgage, which doesn't stretch my resources too badly, and I haven't been in any other form of debt for a long old time; like Dave it's best to live within your means, and if you can keep the odd penny away from the proverbial wall, then try putting a few of them away. On that count I don't recommend getting married btw, severely dents it ;-)

and just to annoy SeanMcG The Decemberists - This Sporting Life

Oh I'm much better off, but that's down to investing in my skills (no help from gov't there) and getting a career that pays and being good at it. If I should be grateful to nu labour for our latest issue from the Royal Mint NOT being a ?100 billion note, then I'll doff my cap, but other than that...meh.

This tune has earwormed me today, exorcise exorcise... Ben Kweller - Walk on Me

A camp Christopher Biggins, is there enough camp in the universe to achieve that?!?!? and to be fair only 3 out of the 13 were forumites.

that's it, Keef, you were right!!!

Were you the knowledgeable chap who sat behind me for a bit, daughter in tow Mr Dale?

I can categorically state that New Labour haven't had the slightest impact on my life over the last 10 years, except for that awful 2 hours I spent at the Millennium Tent, only getting to see the doctor after I was better the twice I was ill enough to warrant an appointment, and making me irate about Iraq.

indeedy. Last chance ladies...

Wedding stuff, dinner then cinema. May make it for last orders though.

Sarah at the George Canning. Always friendly and basically lovely.