Waseley

More of a Lounge discussion but by talking about good schools you may also be affecting those not so good by taking away the more able kids who have supportive parents. Generally it's about demographics and as others have pointed out all schools in the area are decent. From personal experience a change in head teacher can take a school two ways. I am also working in schools across SE London at the mo so could tell you what I think but won't as that would be unfair. To quote a radio 4 documentary the middle classes are the ones that worry most about education but have the least to worry about. Looking back at my own education did my parents get it right? Same question could be asked of me as a parent. We will never know! Choice isn't necessarily a good thing.

There is a separate family room part of this forum for such discussions. Lots on schools there.

I waited at Bricklayers Arms not realising that the 363 goes over the flyover. I was on another bus going up the OKR making the most of the free change of bus but got off the wrong stop. I also travel to Elephant sometimes where we have the luxury of three buses, or maybe more. Occasionally used 185 to work but important to time it before the school run. Fascinating discussion! I've only fallen asleep once on the night bus, many moon ago

In deed,report back after you have spoken with TfL. Elsewhere there needs to be accessible transport but this will always involve some difficult decisions over funding. The anti LTN thread frequently played the disabled travel card. It seems to be the go to for many unhappy with the state of transport. Ps TfL had spent zillions on an accessible bus fleet and improving access to tube and train stations. Far from perfect but still needs to be acknowledged. If I wanted a whinge is that we don't need all black cabs to be fully accessible but if they changed that requirement cabbieswould spend even longer on Talksport and LBC phone ins

New wave, what a ridiculous and ill informed comment about TfL. As others have said they have to make ends meet under difficult circumstances. Many I know are very passionate about their work keeping London moving. Shame that it is easier to knock than to praise.

I'm a great fan of buses and feel that we should recognise a fairly decent service rather than criticising TfL. I'm far more bothered about evenly spacing the service, it being frustrating when they classically come in twos and threes. And when the 185 stops in Camberwell to even out the service, when there was no problem in the first place. These observations exaggerate the issue as it doesn't happen that frequently, it just feels that way.

Hooray saw my first swifts today. I put a swift box up but not sure if the likelihood of a best. I've got 7 tit nesting boxes up too but only one appears to be used. No doubt constant building work in the street doesn't help

There are some interesting wider issues to discuss worthy of their own threads. But on LTNs it's all been said. There are those that hate and those that dislike LTNs, and similarly those who feel the other way. I expect there are far stronger views on this thread against LTNs with some experiencing the worst effects. People like me who may be mildly inconvenienced and at times benefit see restrictions as a necessity and have seen many schemes in the past just labelled as anti rat runs rather than the new acronym. Similarly CPZs for example with more driving from the outer boroughs once the Overground came in for cheaper travel. I know this from friends close to HOP station. It's good to debate, become better informed and allow your views to mature. This thread has moved beyond this, the number crunching had got obsessive and repetitive. Final straw was taking data from the national travel survey and bringing out a new interpretation. There are professionals in government who understand this data far better than most here. Rigour may be needed as ministers for example may put their own spin. But the forensic unpicking is daft. I think I have provided a good summary and for my own sanity need to move onto other things. May you live in interesting times. first mate Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Waseley, absolutely no requirement for you to continue reading or participating in this thread,so curious why you feel the need to close it? I suspect it will continue for some time. > Waseley Wrote: > ----- > > I think that we have reached an understanding from both sides, that the issue is too much traffic,and the main reason being that many drivers arenot prepared to change their habits, eg cuttingout unnecessary journeys, lift sharing or switching to other modes. Where we disagree ishow this is best achieved, in particular the role of LTNs and if and where they should be applied. I doubt whether there is much more we can debateso perhaps time for the thread to end. Not that I have the authority to do so! Sweet dreams all.

I've posted/discussed this before. No scientific evidence that cats are responsible for the decline in bird populations. There are too many of them judging from our street, but that is a separate issue. Google rspb cats, which discusses the matter further

Be careful or Lordship Lane could turn out like Upper Street. Virtually all eateries now chain ones, perhaps only they can afford the rates/rent; until you get half way to Highbury Corner when there are interesting independents .

I think that we have reached an understanding from both sides, that the issue is too much traffic, and the main reason being that many drivers are not prepared to change their habits, eg cutting out unnecessary journeys, lift sharing or switching to other modes. Where we disagree is how this is best achieved, in particular the role of LTNs and if and where they should be applied. I doubt whether there is much more we can debate so perhaps time for the thread to end. Not that I have the authority to do so! Sweet dreams all.

But there is also a resistance to not using your car, in parts of Britain outside of London. Not jus rural areas, where you could argue that public transport and active travel are limited, but urban areas too. I've family and friends across the country who are surprised when I talk about not doing short distances by car. Public transport is seen as poor peoples' transport, and some are happy to run and cycle for exercise, but not to go to the newsagents. Loss of local shops exacerbates things. Back to my last message about messaging.

Successive ministers have talked about the need to replace short car journeys with active travel. You'd think that I could easily find a reference to this, but no. So there is a messaging issue both from the centre but also the masses who are either not getting the message or not listening. That's an observation, not a loaded comment.

It doesn't help your cause in challenging LTNs by calling others pro LTN cheerleaders. I see that you have been challenged in the past about making this tribal, but still do it! It would make it easier to have an adult debate

And how will you achieve this. Market forces, businesses move into the area due to perceived demand and financial return. If you need greater variety you have Peckham. Otherwise this is pub talk. Nothing wrong with pub talk of course 🙂

Experience today: Speeding motorists on side roads. OK a speed enforcement not LTN issue. Parents parking on double yellow lines outside Bessemer Grange and the primary school in the village. Ok another enforcement issue. And for some balance, plenty of responsible cycling, but one lady cycling on the pavement on Townley. Not a youth or a young chap but someone who should give a damn. What relevance is this to the LTN debate? I expect most posting on this thread do obey the rules but so many other road users don't. So you ain't going to get anywhere by asking people nicely to reduce their car journeys/emissions. So we need hard interventions. Hope this isn't gaslighting which I still don't understand

Can you explain what you mean by gaslighting - it seems to be a common response for some where you don't like the opposing views. And interestingly you have hit the nail on the head, child being driven to school. For some the school comes above the ease of getting there. Some will move home to be closer to the school of their choice. If you need to drive your kid to school why oh why aren't you lift sharing with other families. Some honesty here would be appreciated even if it "why should I?"

Well I neither live on a closed road or gated estate but believe you need a fair amount of stick to force some motorists to change their behaviour. Thinking about numerous pre LTN schemes, you cannot cut through back roads going down hill from Honor Oak to the South Circ, and similarly across to Brockley through side roads. No doubt there were protests at the time, but the masses get used to things eventually.

I'd like some of what you are on Mr/Mrs R. Can you imagine a world were the LDs and Torries went into partnership? It's not going to happen. Wait a sec it did... But it ain't going to happen again. Perhaps time to move on? You appear to be grasping a straws and I see no evidence that the masses voted against Labour on this single issue.

Communication along the lines: Human activities result in emissions that can be damaging to health and the environment. It's important that we all take action. We have introduced these restrictions to help to reduce traffic. You can play your part by walking instead of driving. Using the bus. Sharing rides. This is not well crafted and purely there as an example. It seems to me that many use air quality as a weapon to justify their beliefs rather than do something about it by taking some share of the responsibility and taking action themselves

Please please please not another thread to discuss LTNs😐

The Brexit analogy is interesting. Like Brexit LTNs have happened so it is a case of making them work well. Like Brexit, the local elections have mirrored the last general election, in that there was no massive backlash against LTNs I also suspect that those most against LTNs, and certainly the concept, are very much in the minority So LTNs stop drivers using side roads as cut-throughs. This should dissaude some from driving as they may consider that their journey is unnecessary, or the big nudge to use other modes. If this has yet to deliver, and this will take some time, what additional measures are required? It may be as simple as better communication, or the bells and whistles that some want in supercharging public transport.

Interesting how this thread has gone from local issues - the vocal one being LTNs - to national ones. With regards to the latter perhaps some of you will need to accept that LTNs are here to stay and put their energy into making these and other interventions to reduce traffic work better.

Mr/Mrs Rockets, Wandsworth, low council tax AND no LTNs. Oh and it's a sunnier borough too. Ant plans to move there? 😊

There was a lot of help to Wandsworth in the 90s by the Tory government to show how wonderful and cheap their showcase council was.